WARNING Bad blood at Big Bend Ranch State Park

[medicjeff]

I recently had the misfortune to have an interaction with this Dottor guy. We were down there in November just before Thanksgiving with a large group. 13 guys... we did a day ride in the SP. Me and another buddy were on our 990's (yes I've been there multiple times before and knew it would be a handful but my buddy is without a smaller bike right now so I figured I would just hang with him on the big bike) and we rode in on the Oso Loop trail out to the Guale overlooks then back into the park to the Rancherias trail back to the park headquarters. We walked in and paid our fees then planned the next route. Our organizer of the ride wanted to take the group to Fresno Canyon because 7 of the guys had never been to Big Bend. I've done Fresno several times on my 450 and its one of my favorites out there but I was pretty tired after the riding we had already been doing and thought it would be a better idea if we took an easier ride on the big bikes so we decided we would do the Llano loop and meet up with the group after for the trip back to Terlingua.

The group rode off and once they got a little ways out they were likely starting to ride a bit "spirited" as we heard them in the distance. We then took off and stopped off at the airstrip just because its cool to see that huge thing out there in the middle of nowhere. We were sitting on our running bikes right where the dirt stops and the tarmac starts just looking down the strip when we heard and saw a park truck quickly bouncing down the road toward us. He pulled up and started yelling at us immediately asking us what we were doing. I told him we just came in to have a look at the airstrip. He was full on rage mode... he asked if we had ridden down the strip. I told him no. He then said he just saw a large group of bikes and knew they were speeding and that if he catches them/us he will write tickets, impound the bikes, eject us from the park forever and could also take everyone to jail. He's pretty much yelling this at us. He then asked where we were headed and I told him Llano loop. He huffed and drove off. Funny side note he was in 4WD as he couldn't make the turn around, his front tires started skipping and he ran out of room and had to reverse. His dramatic departure was not so dramatic.

I looked at Patrick and asked so what do you think? We both at the same time said lets go back to the trucks and left the park.

I've been going to the BB area for about 30 years and have been riding in the SP since they opened it up to bikes and have never had a negative interaction with any park staff from the National or State parks or any LEO in the area, quite the opposite actually. This left a real bad taste in my mouth.

The guy that put this ride together had a very negative interaction with this guy last year as well. They weren't even riding the bikes. They rented the entire big house complex and brought the bikes into the court yard for some pre ride tinkering when Dottor saw the bikes he went ballistic on them. Ran everyone's DL, checked every bike to assure they were all street legal. Deemed one not to be and instructed them to put it back on the trailer and if it were to come off the trailer again they would be ticketed.

There are more stories about this guy out there. Very discouraging to say the least. Its such a great place to get away and ride.

 

[bwdmax]

In the case of those with a face to face encounter with this officer I would recommend that you follow the process outlined here.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/complaints/

 

[_RG_]

Dotter is a well known commodity out there. Even his fellow tpwd folks have voiced concerns. Pretty arrogant for a guy all alone out in that country.

 

[Downs]

The guy probably considers the park "his" and anyone not using the park in a way he likes is a trespasser in his mind and he by god has the authority to do something about so he does. Just judging from the stories here I'd guess this guy shouldnt' even be a meter maid let alone a ranger in one of the greatest parks in the state.

 

[SilverBullet]

Is this Officer Dotter with the glasses? I found this photo on an old search and rescue report. He was only Asst Superintendent back then. His boss Barrett is giving him a look there same we all feel about him now. Lol

 

[SL350]

All this dang thread is doing is making me want to ride out there again!

 

[kojack06]

My riding partner is done with BBRSP and will not return. Doter asked me if I would return and I told him I will ride in the park but will not stay there. He replied that was a shame and I explained to him that I have options. That was 16 to 18 months ago and I haven't returned. One of the reasons I wont stay in the bunk house has nothing to do with Dotor and thats the noise in the middle of the night. Several years ago a group of riders came in from riding the NW area at around 0100 to 0200 and made no effort to show some consideration to people sleeping. They did not seem to care about other guests sleeping. The front screen door slammed repeatedly coming in and out, loud talking, bikes running by the windows...

The second was the trip we encountered Dotor and that involved the Texas Game folks turning the ENTIRE bunkhouse into a CP for a cougar trapping/euthanizing operation that ran primarily at night. It was impossible to sleep with the activity. They were running ops all night and taken over the dining room/living area and were sleeping in the dining area. They were holding meetings during the day and evening. Many were sleeping at day because they were trapping at night. It was interesting at first. Then it seemed we were in their way. Had I known I would have waited a week. The park HQ just looked at bed space... I work hard at my job and its dangerous. Im on vacation at a state park and paying to stay in a park lodge. The state was working out of the lodge around the clock.

Anyway, that was last straw for me. Im finished with the bunkhouse. We enjoyed it while it lasted. I always reserve the right to change my mind and may stay at the bunk house in the future but for now Ill camp at Rancho Topango, enjoy a cup of coffee or cold one with comrades in the evening, get a decent nights rest so Im safe on a MC and ride down to BBRSP if I chose to.

I use to donate a nice check to the Texas State Park system(as did my buddy) at the end of the year and I stopped after my experiences at BBRSP.

 

[Dahveed]

Is this Officer Dotter with the glasses? I found this photo on an old search and rescue report. He was only Asst Superintendent back then. His boss Barrett is giving him a look there same we all feel about him now. Lol

View attachment 40128

I can't confirm that is Dotter. I have only been to BBRSP once for the BUTT ride RideDualSport.com used to do. Barrett was in charge there and he seemed to understand his job there was to encourage people to use the park as recreation. It was well run under Barrett and he made us all feel welcome and gave our group a briefing. Those were the good ole days when they had great food at the bunkhouse and a better attitude than they seem to these days.

Perhaps more reasonable staff will return to the park in the near future and it will once again be a welcoming environment for all users. Until that day, I'll avoid it.

PS, that speed limit is ridiculous as is a $250 fine. Speeding out there is truly a victimless crime.

 

[TwoSmokeDS]

The second was the trip we encountered Dotor and that involved the Texas Game folks turning the ENTIRE bunkhouse into a CP for a cougar trapping/euthanizing operation that ran primarily at night.

Cougars in Big Bend? Was there an attack on human that precipitated it?

 

[kojack06]

No attacks on humans. The state reintroduced Big Horn sheep into the park and the wildlife biologists explained that BBRSP has a thriving mountain lion population that is feasting on the sheep. I asked if they relocated excess cougars and they said they didnt. The cats are trapped and euthanized. It was interesting to watch and talk to them. It was difficult for to use the bunkhouse and to get rest with meetings, AARs, 24 hr ops, people sleeping in the living and dining rooms. Dotor gave one of game biologists a ticket for alcohol consumption in the dining room. The fellow went to his vehicle, got a beer and poured in the infamous Solo cup and went back into the building.

The operation was interesting and the employees were friendly to us. They showed the gear they used, traps, etc.

 

[SilverBullet]

Cougars in Big Bend?

I've personally seen more than one Cougars at BBRSP. But all were of the female, caucasian, post menopausal variety. True, not joking.

_

 

[philipbarrett]

Barrett was in charge there and he seemed to understand his job there was to encourage people to use the park as recreation. It was well run under Barrett and he made us all feel welcome and gave our group a briefing.

We're basically a good bunch.

 

[fastestoldwheelieguy]

Is this Officer Dotter with the glasses? I found this photo on an old search and rescue report. He was only Asst Superintendent back then. His boss Barrett is giving him a look there same we all feel about him now. Lol

View attachment 40128

Yep! That's our boy! He "SAYS" he is a former Marine. So am I but I don't go around screwing people.

 

[FCBH]

Thanks for posting your grievance on TWTEX for others to see and comment on their own experiences as well.

If you need an different way to file a complaint, I suggest sending a fax copy to the various Big Bend State Park officials as well as several certified letters.

Keep us posted if you receive a reply from park officials.

RB

 

[PJ]

Dotter is a well known commodity out there. Even his fellow tpwd folks have voiced concerns. Pretty arrogant for a guy all alone out in that country.

Completely agree here RG.

 

[woodsguy]

Be glad the officier didnot add extra fines for not having proper equipment (DOT brake light, turn signal, license plate light, etc) on converted dirtbikes.

Where did he say they were on nonplated dirtbikes?

 

[Chris Mitchell]

One thing you can do it for everyone who is given this sort of treatment to sit down and write a letter that documents the whole incident. This letter should contain all the WHO WHAT WHERE WHEN information that is possible and include any other information as to what is said and how it was said. Send that information to this Officers supervisor's and to your state representative. Tell them that your are being harassed and endangered by the officers actions. If you happen to have a camera running a copy of that video would be helpful to prove your case. Complaints from citizens are the pain the the backside to any officer. Those complaints on a Federal officer are taken seriously and require man hours to investigate, costs the Agency time and money to do. Complaints against a officer have a habit of adding up against him. Its the old saying, " All the indicators are pointing to the officer when complaints add up, and when he does in fact step on his own tender bits it suddenly seems he is over stepping his bounds. There are enough former/current police officers in this forum to back me up on this.

 

[TexJoe]

All this dang thread is doing is making me want to ride out there again!

Pretty much, I'd like to ride there however: C$^@s like this will keep me from partaking. My job monitors my driving record and ? well if there is a descrepancy for something petty like this...

 

[SL350]

Unfortunately for the officer, this thread could haunt him in court. He may come to a situation where deadly force is necessary. He needs to be reassigned.

 

[Dahveed]

Unfortunately for the officer, this thread could haunt him in court. He may come to a situation where deadly force is necessary. He needs to be reassigned.

He, at least, needs some training. Like "how not to be a jerk" or something along those lines.

Perhaps a career change with less power. Mall security? Maybe guard in an armored car - that position doesn't interact with people much.

 

[Tourmeister]

PS, that speed limit is ridiculous as is a $250 fine. Speeding out there is truly a victimless crime.

Well... not totally. BBRSP is a VERY remote area. If you are hauling and crash as a result, getting help out there is going to cost some serious money. Some years back at the Uncle's Ride in Terlingua, we had a rider not come back after a day of riding. The next morning, the Sheriff was there and plans were being made to begin searching. Mobilizing the resources to mount a search and rescue is nothing to sneeze at out there where the counties don't have loads of money. That rider actually showed up that morning in the middle of the planning and got a real earful from the Sheriff. He was fine. He just neglected to mention to anyone that he planned on spending the night out in the middle of nowhere.

When I was at BBRSP for one of the BUTT events, I spoke with Barrett about this issue. We were riding Fresno Canyon and the remoteness got my attention more than usual for some reason. I think one of the other riders in a different group may have had an off, but wasn't hurt too badly. Anyway, he mentioned that from the time contact was made with him or another ranger, it could still easily be an hour or more before a helicopter showed up if needed. Ground retrieval would be much longer.

Barrett is a rider. I think he had a DR650 at the time I was there. So he "gets it" in terms of seeing our point of view. However, he was still responsible for the park and his job was to make sure ALL of the various kinds of visitors could enjoy the park while being safe. People out there doing bird watching, of which there were quite a few when I was there, don't exactly appreciate bikes flying by them creating massive dust clouds and lots of noise. Hikers and horse riders are much the same. They go there because of the isolation and remoteness. So there is a legitimate need to balance their use of the park against that of riders.

The 25mph limit on the main roads is kind of crazy for a bike. I would very much like to see that raised to at least 45mph because it takes FOREVER to get anywhere at 25mph in such a large park. For most of the rougher side roads, 25-30 mph really isn't that big a deal because they are rough enough that you don't really need to go much faster even if you can. Fresno Canyon is the only exception in my view. In the really deep gravel sections, you simply HAVE to run faster than 25mph just to safely control your bike! Here again, 45mph would be reasonable FOR A BIKE. What might be cool is if they had different speed limits, say 45mph for bikes and 30mph for cars/trucks.

Even if the speed limits were made more reasonable, riders still need to be aware of other people in the park and work hard at not being obnoxious. This means slowing down where necessary if you see other people, especially if they are with horses! It means being considerate if you are passing a slower moving vehicle. It means keeping exhaust pipe sound levels legit. It means treating the place with respect instead of like you are riding the Baja 1000. When I was there, I did not see any riders doing anything objectionable. However, I have seen how some riders have ridden in other places and I have no doubt it occasionally happens at BBRSP. Unfortunately, it doesn't take very many disrespectful riders to cause problems for the rest of us... Complaints from other park users about bikes carry weight with the higher ups as well and they may see the actions of Dotter as being justifiable in that light. I am NOT justifying his behavior, attitudes, or unprofessional manners, but I can understand why there MIGHT be cause for more strict enforcement of the rules.

 

[philipbarrett]

That rider actually showed up that morning in the middle of the planning

This means slowing down where necessary if you see other people, especially if they are with horses!

We're instituting a 1 hour time penalty on every rider who does not check in at the bivouac at the Baja Rally this year, same issue.

As to the equestrians, remember they are typically much better connected than us motorcyclists who don't generally have State Representatives on speed dial.

 

[Dahveed]

Well... not totally. BBRSP is a VERY remote area. If you are hauling and crash as a result, getting help out there is going to cost some serious money. Some years back at the Uncle's Ride in Terlingua, we had a rider not come back after a day of riding. The next morning, the Sheriff was there and plans were being made to begin searching. Mobilizing the resources to mount a search and rescue is nothing to sneeze at out there where the counties don't have loads of money. That rider actually showed up that morning in the middle of the planning and got a real earful from the Sheriff. He was fine. He just neglected to mention to anyone that he planned on spending the night out in the middle of nowhere.

When I was at BBRSP for one of the BUTT events, I spoke with Barrett about this issue. We were riding Fresno Canyon and the remoteness got my attention more than usual for some reason. I think one of the other riders in a different group may have had an off, but wasn't hurt too badly. Anyway, he mentioned that from the time contact was made with him or another ranger, it could still easily be an hour or more before a helicopter showed up if needed. Ground retrieval would be much longer.

Barrett is a rider. I think he had a DR650 at the time I was there. So he "gets it" in terms of seeing our point of view. However, he was still responsible for the park and his job was to make sure ALL of the various kinds of visitors could enjoy the park while being safe. People out there doing bird watching, of which there were quite a few when I was there, don't exactly appreciate bikes flying by them creating massive dust clouds and lots of noise. Hikers and horse riders are much the same. They go there because of the isolation and remoteness. So there is a legitimate need to balance their use of the park against that of riders.

The 25mph limit on the main roads is kind of crazy for a bike. I would very much like to see that raised to at least 45mph because it takes FOREVER to get anywhere at 25mph in such a large park. For most of the rougher side roads, 25-30 mph really isn't that big a deal because they are rough enough that you don't really need to go much faster even if you can. Fresno Canyon is the only exception in my view. In the really deep gravel sections, you simply HAVE to run faster than 25mph just to safely control your bike! Here again, 45mph would be reasonable FOR A BIKE. What might be cool is if they had different speed limits, say 45mph for bikes and 30mph for cars/trucks.

Even if the speed limits were made more reasonable, riders still need to be aware of other people in the park and work hard at not being obnoxious. This means slowing down where necessary if you see other people, especially if they are with horses! It means being considerate if you are passing a slower moving vehicle. It means keeping exhaust pipe sound levels legit. It means treating the place with respect instead of like you are riding the Baja 1000. When I was there, I did not see any riders doing anything objectionable. However, I have seen how some riders have ridden in other places and I have no doubt it occasionally happens at BBRSP. Unfortunately, it doesn't take very many disrespectful riders to cause problems for the rest of us... Complaints from other park users about bikes carry weight with the higher ups as well and they may see the actions of Dotter as being justifiable in that light. I am NOT justifying his behavior, attitudes, or unprofessional manners, but I can understand why there MIGHT be cause for more strict enforcement of the rules.

I've been there once, but I didn't observe any awful behavior. I think we rode most everywhere faster than 25 mph, except the steep technical stuff. To be honest, I wasn't aware (until this thread) of a speed limit there and my speedo isn't accurate so I have no idea how fast I was going other than a safe speed for the conditions.

You can't legislate consideration. It can be taught, but its doubtful a ticket is going to be a positive lesson in that regard. A pre-ride briefing is often all that is needed to remind riders to be considerate. Most riders I know are considerate. They slow down when passing other road users like horses, cyclists, hikers and even homes that are close to a gravel road. And I agree that moderating noise is a good thing. Other road/trail users are often frustrated by the noise factor from motorcycles, ATVs, and snowmobiles.

But I don't agree with the actions of officer Dotter. It appears to me he has some sort of problem with motorcyclists or people. I'm sure he is making the park safer by driving away motorcyclists. But that defeats the purpose of a park. When I was there, motorcyclist comprised 80-90% of the users. There were a few bicyclists there (imagine that sand on a bike!) and a few hikers, which might have been non-riders associated with our group now that I think about it.

Like so many other things, its a trade off. Do you to maximize the use of the park or minimize injury and expense.

 

[Johnf3]

Well... not totally. BBRSP is a VERY remote area. If you are hauling and crash as a result, getting help out there is going to cost some serious money. Some years back at the Uncle's Ride in Terlingua, we had a rider not come back after a day of riding. The next morning, the Sheriff was there and plans were being made to begin searching. Mobilizing the resources to mount a search and rescue is nothing to sneeze at out there where the counties don't have loads of money. That rider actually showed up that morning in the middle of the planning and got a real earful from the Sheriff. He was fine. He just neglected to mention to anyone that he planned on spending the night out in the middle of nowhere.

When I was at BBRSP for one of the BUTT events, I spoke with Barrett about this issue. We were riding Fresno Canyon and the remoteness got my attention more than usual for some reason. I think one of the other riders in a different group may have had an off, but wasn't hurt too badly. Anyway, he mentioned that from the time contact was made with him or another ranger, it could still easily be an hour or more before a helicopter showed up if needed. Ground retrieval would be much longer.

Barrett is a rider. I think he had a DR650 at the time I was there. So he "gets it" in terms of seeing our point of view. However, he was still responsible for the park and his job was to make sure ALL of the various kinds of visitors could enjoy the park while being safe. People out there doing bird watching, of which there were quite a few when I was there, don't exactly appreciate bikes flying by them creating massive dust clouds and lots of noise. Hikers and horse riders are much the same. They go there because of the isolation and remoteness. So there is a legitimate need to balance their use of the park against that of riders.

The 25mph limit on the main roads is kind of crazy for a bike. I would very much like to see that raised to at least 45mph because it takes FOREVER to get anywhere at 25mph in such a large park. For most of the rougher side roads, 25-30 mph really isn't that big a deal because they are rough enough that you don't really need to go much faster even if you can. Fresno Canyon is the only exception in my view. In the really deep gravel sections, you simply HAVE to run faster than 25mph just to safely control your bike! Here again, 45mph would be reasonable FOR A BIKE. What might be cool is if they had different speed limits, say 45mph for bikes and 30mph for cars/trucks.

Even if the speed limits were made more reasonable, riders still need to be aware of other people in the park and work hard at not being obnoxious. This means slowing down where necessary if you see other people, especially if they are with horses! It means being considerate if you are passing a slower moving vehicle. It means keeping exhaust pipe sound levels legit. It means treating the place with respect instead of like you are riding the Baja 1000. When I was there, I did not see any riders doing anything objectionable. However, I have seen how some riders have ridden in other places and I have no doubt it occasionally happens at BBRSP. Unfortunately, it doesn't take very many disrespectful riders to cause problems for the rest of us... Complaints from other park users about bikes carry weight with the higher ups as well and they may see the actions of Dotter as being justifiable in that light. I am NOT justifying his behavior, attitudes, or unprofessional manners, but I can understand why there MIGHT be cause for more strict enforcement of the rules.

You make many very good points about self-responsibility. Unfortunately, we (in a collective sense) are many times our worst enemy. I am not insinuating that of anyone in the thread however. This is just a general statement that I have seen be true at times.

Riding fast out there falls under the same personal responsibility umbrella. Plus, accidents just happen in our sport. I have seen an A rider explode his lower leg from a simple dab at less than 5 mph. I can see speed limits being a safety factor in area with traffic, pedestrians, horses, but honestly the usage is so low out there it makes little difference, except for the enforcement zealot that is the subject of this thread.

...and the last time I was in the State Park down there I was keeping a pretty spirited pace on the way out on Bofecillos Rd (never saw a soul except my riding partners), especially the part that is the dry riverbed. I was on my 950 and Dotter couldn't have caught me if he was in a Trophy Truck.

 

[wildernessrider]

I adamantly encourage ANYONE who has EVER had negative contact with this officer to write the incident up, and send it in. If the incident is not very recent, explain that you were finally driven to action after seeing repeated incidents of this guy berrating and harrassing other park users on the rider forum. Be sure to mention how much you have previously used and enjoyed the park, and the fact that you will not be returning to the park after being verbally harassed, and threatened with vehicle confiscation & imprisonment for ALLEGEDLY exceeding 25mph on a totally deserted road. PLEASE do the rest of us a favor and write this guy up. Rest assured he would do the same to you! If anyone could come up with a phone number to his superiors, a barrage of calls from all of us concerned would be park users could help to sharpen the focus in on Mr Dotter. I sure wish law enforcement would do a diligent job of weeding out the power trip officers who simply can't handle the responsibility of authority over other humans. One loose cannon person like this negates all the good deeds of a hundred other officers in the eye of the public. Allowing these bad eggs to continue to perpetrate their personal aggressions on a helpless public totally disenfranchises ordinary walk of life people from law enforcement. I wish these guys would stop letting their own give them a black eye.