Photo Assignment frequency.....

We've been doing the photography assignments for six years now. I'm happy with all the entries, comments and participation we've enjoyed thus far. Yet part of me thinks we all need to have an honest discussion about how we can improve this corner of TWT, get more people involved in the discussions and create better images for ride reports and our personal use.

So....

1) What are the good things we are doing in this sub-forum?

2) What are the not-so-good things we are doing?

3) What would you like to see done we are not doing?

4) And how can we fix things?


Looking forward to hearing from everyone on the forum....

This poll will close 4/3/2015 at 12:51pm


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I like them a lot, even though I've never submitted to them- they close more quickly than I'd like. Rather than keep them to one per month, what if there were multiple that ran concurrent, with one ending every two weeks or so, for a month's duration? That would give more time for folks to participate while also keeping fresh content happening.

1. Great work, keep it up.
2. Contests end too quickly.
3. Keep them from ending so quickly.
4. By having two per month that each last a month.

My biggest problem with the assignments is just that I forget. If I remember, and it is a big if, it is usually the night of and I am fumbling around for something to shoot. I know, I know, nothing but excuses, but it is at least the truth. So for me, changing the frequency might help, but truth be told I'd probably just be me and forget until the last minute.

The other thing I see is just an ebb and flow to the participants. I find it interesting to look back at the folks that participated in #1-25, and now. Maybe there is just a lull in the action right now?

My deal is also remembering, and then making time to figure out a shot and make it happen. I personally don't mind the short time frame of the assignments - in fact, for me knowing that I won't have a whole ton of time is part of the fun/challenge and helps me remember that I need to come up with a shot. Nothing like a deadline to motivate! I do have to wonder if time / "real" life is the issue for most other folks. Sometimes things are just too busy and I have to try to catch the next contest.

Having said that, if drawing out the timeline a skosh will net us a few more participants in general... maybe a compromise could be made? I do worry that a month would be a bit long, but perhaps three weeks would do the trick. I have no idea, I just want the assignments to keep on coming!

As a sometimes participant and casual photographer I enjoy learning from the critiques. The occasional selection as a winner in the contest is initially cause for a big smile on my face. Two weeks later when I have to give the critiques is stressful. Being a casual photographer I have so very little insight into post processing software.

As for the frequency, I have no issue with the two weeks, but no opposition to trying something different.

So.... for your questions...

1) What are the good things we are doing in this sub-forum?
The sharing of technical and creative information in the sub-forum is one of the good things. Reading people's questions about how to improve their results coupled with the advice and examples given is right up there with the challenge of the assignments.

2) What are the not-so-good things we are doing?
I don't have any observations of not-so-good things in this sub-forum.

3) What would you like to see done we are not doing?
Maybe some more face to face activities. The upcoming photo-playshop is quite exciting since I get to participate. Other classes held farther from me were intriguing although I didn't move the mountain of details to make a road trip happen for those.

4) And how can we fix things?
Perhaps the suggested face to face activities could piggy-back other TWT events so more riders can be lulled into the camera addiction with us.

ed29 said:

3) What would you like to see done we are not doing?
Maybe some more face to face activities. The upcoming photo-playshop is quite exciting since I get to participate. Other classes held farther from me were intriguing although I didn't move the mountain of details to make a road trip happen for those.

4) And how can we fix things?
Perhaps the suggested face to face activities could piggy-back other TWT events so more riders can be lulled into the camera addiction with us.

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I like both of these responses.

I like them, but find that unless I dedicate time to go work on it (very hard to do) that I miss the deadline. If we made it monthly than I could get the shots easier during my more limited riding time now.

Or expand the window to images taken in the past 6 months or a year.

Just tossing out ideas.

WoodButcher said:

Or expand the window to images taken in the past 6 months or a year.

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I like this, but...

I like that for the current assignments, it makes the shooter go out and think about what it takes to get the photograph for that subject. The idea here is that they might be challenged to use settings or techniques outside their normal range of shooting. If we were to open it up to image captured before the beginning of the assignment, I think we'd lose that aspect of challenging the shooter to get outside their normal envelope. That said...

I also like the idea of having something where we could post a subject and then have people go back through all their shots to find photos that satisfy the subject. Sometimes that might make then reexamine an image in a way that they never really saw it before. They might retake the image if that is possible, but at the least it would give them something to think about for future images. They might see the old shot and think about what they could have done to make it better.

So... maybe have one assignment that is like what we have been doing and then another that lets people dig through their archived images.

For the helmet challenge I had a really cool picture of a helmet in a fire with the flames licking up around it. Not something I wanted to recreate, but a neat looking image. That's kind of what prompted the recent, but not ancient photo thought.

Even though I don't always act on my plans, I plan a shot every time. I like seeing what other folks do, and reading the critiques that we give each other. I do like the idea of photo meet ups. (The one several of us did in the studio in Arlington and the Dallas skyline was fun.)
When I bring my camera to a ride, I find that either I don't get many good shots or I don't get much riding time. However, when a ride has planned routes it is fun to ride ahead and get shots at water crossings, deep curves, etc.

I'm not really into planning my shots. See something and bang. For years, 90% of my pictures were on a moving bike traveling about the US.
I do ride about with an eye for good things to photo and now days , even stop and get off the bike to get a good angle. Now , with this group, I keep an eye and mind open for each subject. If it happens good, if not , good. But, I'll never be a high tech picture taker. LOL, just got my 1st tripod as a Christmas present and it's still in the box.
But, I like to throw my hat in the pot on the different subjects just to keep the pot going. As per time frame, not a problem for me, I'm retired. As per old photos and photos of pictures or other photos, I like keeping it current as is.
Reminds me kinda when I was working for Shell Oil out in the gulf in the late '60's and the big boss from New Orleans showed up at my compressor station at 3AM in the morning. I was mopping between big engines with very much ear protection on and he bang on a pipe with a wrench to get my attention to follow him to the office and make coffee for us and talk. His first words implanted in my memory for the rest of my life. " Do you feel over worked?" Me > " No sir, I'm sitting here drinking coffee with you and getting paid for it. " Him > Smiling " Every time I hear someone say they are over worked , they are sitting around, drinking coffee, on the clock." That's my take on time frames and gettin' er done.

Most everybody's touched on what I'd say.

1) What are the good things we are doing in this sub-forum?
Just having it is a good thing. Even when I don't submit, it gets me thinking about how I'd setup the shot, which is a good exercise in itself.

2) What are the not-so-good things we are doing?
nothing negative, but perhaps a change or two to see if it would help participation.
- a 3 week submit window, vs. 2, but start one every two weeks. That would mean 2 concurrent assignments.
- I'd leave the entry for fresh shots and assignment to share past shots. I personally like the pressure of creating a new shot for the entry. The parallel assignment thread allows me to explore the past shot history.

3) What would you like to see done we are not doing?
If I still lived in TX, I'd like the workshops before/after a pie run.

4) And how can we fix things?
implies it's broke, which I don't think it is.

I often put a reminder on my personal calendar and still miss shooting/submitting. Life is just too dang crazy.

I have one more comment that might even end up raising a question or two...

At the start of the assignments a larger number of very accomplished picture takers seemed to be participating. How do we entice the more accomplished folks to join in? As the skill level of the participants goes up the quality of the entries will too. I wouldn't care if I never 'win' another assignment if the end result is that I get to learn more about taking and making good shots.

Like Ed said, I feel very unqualified to critique pictures. I pick what I like, but I can't always put a finger on why.
If I ever get tasked with judging again, I may tap Duke, Scott, or other "pros" for their critique and post that along side mine. The idea being to help everyone learn.

The main reason I don't participate more is: me. I'm crazy busy, but that's just an excuse. I generally keep an eye out enough to know what's going on, but forget when the deadline is or just get too busy to shoot something.

I'm not against a 3wk window, but personally, it won't help my forgetfulness.

I like the must-take-a-new-shot aspect. I don't have enough of a library to go back on many shots, so it wouldn't affect me much to allow prior pictures. But, I'd be happy with either an alternate challenge for prior photos, or having a separate category for prior photos. Run it along side of the take-a-new-shot challenge, Judge it the same, but only the new shots can win. Or something.

I really don't feel there's anything "wrong". I like the name change to "assignment" vs contest. Minor change, but helps us newbs feel more comfortable entering when we know we're going up against the likes of Duke and Scott.

Thanks for all the input so far..... Good stuff for sure to consider.

For starters, I am NOT a professional photographer. I may have visions of someday heading that direction, but no - it's not my 'day-job'. But thank you anyway unless of course you're referencing the other Scott (RTScott) who does this professionally as a side job. And we can't leave out JeepPhoto, Sharkey, PhotoJoJo. jmmgarza, TexTom, HtuchPhoto (RIP), DutchInterceptor, and probably half a dozen others I KNOW are professionals.

I really do try to create great images instead of just snaps. Don't get me wrong, there's a time and place for snaps, but for the most part I'm just finding my way through all of the options at my disposal for what kind of shots and content I like shooting, how I like to present different subject content, the creativity I have with post and on and on. Yet let's not make this a "this person or that person" kind of thing for comparisons. That's not the intent of this section and I hope that what we are doing doesn't scare folks off.

What I'd REALLY like to see is some of the professionals play in here more. Recognizing time = money for all of us, I can certainly understand the time pressures to digest an assignment, sketch it out in your head, set it up/shoot it, and run it by post. Yeah, it takes an effort to do so.

As for critiques, that's the beauty of having such a diverse group of shooters. It's all about the person who's entry was selected as the best of the assignment to get the new one going and judge it based on their perceptions. By doing so, there's a twofold benefit. First, it forces the owner of the current assignment to really study the images for the criteria they wanted to see in an entry. They really have to LOOK at ALL the components they envisioned, and constructively comment on what made the cut and what missed the mark. This isn't personal..... It's all about learning from others. And secondly, those owners of images being reviewed get to see another side of the coin for what they created. Professional or not in the evaluators mind, a good dose of what another person saw in the image is good to know.

The poll runs another week or so at which point I'll really look at what has been presented, chew on it a bit and toss it back out to the group.

The really cool thing is, for those who have been around awhile, I can see an increase in their image quality. It's proof positive that as a community of pixel-pirates we DO increase our skills learning from one another. I know I've learned a TON of stuff from others here.

:camera:

More later..... but by all means, keep commenting your thoughts!

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Lots and lots of good comments in this thread.

First my photographic journey can be chronicled right here on TWT, I have always been a picture taker, but would never have been confused for what I would call a photographer. I am able to take pictures like I do today because of the help and motivation I received here on TWT.

In early 2009, RTScott (was STScott back then) & Sharkey volunteered to teach a class in Irving. That was the first time I learned what Aperture, ISO & Shutter Speed meant in relation to each other. It was also where I learned a new way to think about picture taking. Sharkey commanded when we were wrapping up for us to “leave here and from now on quit just taking pictures and go out and create images”. I am paraphrasing but that is the just of it and it really was an eye opener for me.

The photo assignments were like a class room assignment for me, they motivated me to shoot more and then my confidence started to improve and my images started to get better. I attribute the skills I have acquired thus far (I am still learning) to the photo assignment threads.

For a while there were many of us like minded shooters who were truly challenging each other to shoot more and to shoot better with an emphasis on Composition, Exposure and Subject matter. Then there would be valuable feedback in the form of a critique after the assignment ended. I am going to be a negative nelly about it today... those days have passed.

It was never a CONTEST on who would win a prize it was an ASSIGNMENT to create an image that best conveyed the chosen subject matter to the judge for that round.

I don't want to see it go, but I am also bored with it in its current state. Fundamentally it is simply because of the lack of participation. But then I don’t participate which just perpetuates the issue. Between 60 hour weeks with my day job and balancing a healthy relationship with my wife, the assignment threads are just not as high on my To-Do lists as they used to be. What does it look like going forward? Well I hope that it will remain strongly tied to its roots and be an avenue for those trying to improve their photography skills.

I voted for choice of “Maybe but with changes – discuss”. Since brainstorming this topic, one thing to consider is how to get more picture takers involved? I am not sure just how to accomplish this but what if:

• Photos must be new works that are reflective of the assignment given. We can always go back and find inspiration or motivation from prior images but for it to be counted it should be new works taken after the start of the thread.
  
• A volunteer starts an assignment thread and agrees to critique the images and choose a winner. Limit the thread to 10 pictures only. It might take a day, or it might take a month, but when the thread hits 10 pics, no more entries. This will permit a single or many threads to be running concurrently without a starting date or ending date. But the thread starter has to be committed to give a critique.
  
• Once 10 assignments have identified their “winners”, those 10 then go into a public poll for the entire TWT family to vote on to find the “favorite”. Wash rinse and repeat, as many times as needed!

Lastly just a comment about the critiques themselves. The way I look at it, there is no way to do it wrong other than to say, Great Shoot or Meh, Bad shot. If you get the con and when it comes time for you to select the winner, put together a sentence or two of why you chose that image over your second place image, and continue. My wife works for an organization called The First Tee, where they work with kids from 7 -17 years of age. They teach them to critique each others skills execution with a “Good-Better-How” directive. We could make this the model for the critiques. What as good, what could be better, how would you do it? Basically it promotes you must have a solution (doesn’t have to be the sole solution) to convey to their team mates, and in my mind I feel that this will help us to take better images in the end.


As Dennis Miller used to say; these are just my opinions, I could be wrong’

I like your idea of the 10 image blitz sort of contest. That would mean you need to shoot and post faster to be included. Maybe a second contest and try it out?

I still like the organized old way too though.

I find judging challenges me almost as much as shooting. FWIW

Quite a bit of what Duke said rings true with me. I am into, and now obsessed with photography, due to this little subforum of twtex. This place started an itch, which I then had to reach out and scratch through various other sources.

As for the contests/assignments, when I was participating, and I'm being completely honest here, the worst part to me was winning and having to choose a new topic. It probably sounds stupid, but I feel like all of my ideas had either been done in the past in one form or another or were just plain lame. That alone led me to slow down and even stop my participation. Although I do admit, I'm always checking on everything in this Photography forum.

At this point, life is really getting in the way of me participating in the assignments (along with the thought of having to come up with a new assignment ). Trying to be a good husband and father of two daughters under 5 takes a lot of time. I'm also doing 365 day projects of my daughters, so I'm worrying about getting shots of them each day.

klb1122 said:

Quite a bit of what Duke said rings true with me. I am into, and now obsessed with photography, due to this little subforum of twtex. This place started an itch, which I then had to reach out and scratch through various other sources.

As for the contests/assignments, when I was participating, and I'm being completely honest here, the worst part to me was winning and having to choose a new topic. It probably sounds stupid, but I feel like all of my ideas had either been done in the past in one form or another or were just plain lame. That alone led me to slow down and even stop my participation. Although I do admit, I'm always checking on everything in this Photography forum.

At this point, life is really getting in the way of me participating in the assignments (along with the though of having to come up with a new assignment ). Trying to be a good husband and father of two daughters under 5 takes a lot of time. I'm also doing 365 day projects of my daughters, so I'm worrying about getting shots of them each day.

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I refuse to have a child for the next photo assignment.

Tracker said:

I refuse to have a child for the next photo assignment.

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I with Gary on this. A wife is plenty at this point!

I like the Photo Assignments, although I haven't been participating lately. I'll try to get back into posting.

Two reasons: I lost my home internet access so I have to post at work or the library and my hobby of Photography has taken a "back seat" to my new CB1100 motorcycle.

The Photography part of TWT is the first place I go to when I log on. I get to combine my loves of motorcycling, photography and travel. And the people I have met online and in person have become very good friends to me. We have a great group of photographer/riders here.

I say that the time period is good; it gives us a deadline to hit. And I would like to see more "get togethers" like the Dallas Skyline/Arlington photo studio we did.

Being one of the new comers to this style of thing and photography in general, I have learned a lot here just lurking and reading, I don't submit much due to recent poor health and back surgery that keeps me from getting about much, but I enjoy reading and learning. I look forward to the challenges continuing so that I may learn more from both the highly skilled and the highly motivated contributors alike.
For myself, time pressures can help to focus one's efforts but life often gets in the way of completing the task.
Having perhaps a rotating order of subject matter may help in getting some greater involvement for some, eg: every 3rd challenge is on 'wildlife' or 'flora' or something like that. This would allow those who are 'challenged for time' to plan in advance for a photo as opposed to maybe, "I know the perfect place/thing/shot for that but I just don't have time to get it before the close.
Fixing? not sure that is required but maybe certain challenge 'winners' or other 'shots' might be included in a local showing or annual camp/event/meeting, maybe some enterprising soul can put together an album for members to purchase?
But I am reminded that it might be wise to ask what is the purpose of the endeavor in the first place? Entertainment? Education? Measuring one's skills, admiration of others work?
It is difficult to give good advice if the initial goal is unclear...

This patient is under medication, please include this in your consideration of his comments.

OK folks.... I've been thinking about this. Honest.

I'm sort of rolling around a little format change that on paper looks like this. The ideas stem from the comments above as well as a lot of PM's and face to face time with members on this little corner of TWT.

Highlights (draft of course....)

1. Have three threads per assignment (strictly because of technical constraints of the forum software) to include a) Assignment, b) Entry, and c) Voting

The Assignment thread would remain the same. The chosen image creator gets to choose the next assignment keeping that portion intact. The Entry thread would stay the same as currently, but 'might' be limited by a total number of entries. ie: get it in before the slots are filled for consideration/voting. And the third thread would be the Voting thread where the images submitted in the Entry thread would be moved to the voting thread and everyone/anyone could vote on their selection. ie: the entire body of TWT votes on what they perceive to be the best image submitted for that assignment.

This leads me to the second point
2. Create a Voting Poll that would remove the critique/comments by the person judging the current assignment. In many respects, I rather enjoy reading the critiques and 'why' the judge thought those things. On the other hand, if we went with a voting poll format, we'd lose out on the critique aspect which I think has been beneficial (for me at least) in understanding how I could do some things different. The poll would be a specific date range, votes hidden from view until the poll closed, The userid would be the name in the poll corresponding to the image displayed, and voters choice would remain anonymous.

3. The Assignments would run for the entire month. We'd allocate roughly three weeks to get the assignment up and entries submitted. Then the last week, the Entry thread would be closed and the Voting poll created with a close date of the last day of the month. By moving to a full month for the assignment, hopefully we'd get more participation and for sure - we'd eliminate the "I ran out of time / didn't plan the time well" excuse. By moving to a voting poll, we eliminate the uncomfortable position some are placed in by having to critique others work.

Yeah, it's a bit more overhead for me, but I'm just tossing it out there.

I'm thinking we might get a lot more participation if it were opened up for three weeks to shoot, as well as removing the critique component.

What say 'ye?


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KiwiTex said:

But I am reminded that it might be wise to ask what is the purpose of the endeavor in the first place? Entertainment? Education? Measuring one's skills, admiration of others work?
It is difficult to give good advice if the initial goal is unclear...

This patient is under medication, please include this in your consideration of his comments.

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The goal all along has been to provide a learning space within TWT where people of all skill levels could learn, provide input and hang out all things related to photography with the primary goal to increase the quality of shots which would transfer over into the ride reports... As we've done these assignments, we've elevated not just the ability to do better ride report shots, but increase the general skills of members in a variety of areas like products, animals (pets), flash, natural light and so forth. The idea is to challenge us to try new things and learn from that.


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