Yup. Went down three times, first two didn't hurt much but the third broke my aluminum mounting on the KLR. JB Weld and soft bags next time for sure
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2019 Texas Adventure Ride
- Thread starter Trail Boss
- Start date
Yup. Went down three times, first two didn't hurt much but the third broke my aluminum mounting on the KLR. JB Weld and soft bags next time for sure
WHEN will you be road worthy again??
Ropeburn
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I’m walking around decently well, I told myself that I’d wait another month before i ride on pavement. Then a few more to get my confidence back up before i get dirty.
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I had a great time this weekend. Ill definitely be attending more events.
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The IMS shifter thats sold for the KLR650 is the one that I have. IMS does not have a specific shifter yet for the Versys-X 300 but they said their tech support said the KLR650 should work. They are right, however its a little too long, about 1/2 to 1in longer, which works fine for me because I wear pretty heavy leather combat boots and the little tiny shifters they put on these Japanese bikes have always been a problem for me.
So when I wrecked in Jacksboro the original factory shifter which is 1/4 in thick steel bent backwards and under the foot peg. That took allot of work to get it back to just usable to get back to Jacksboro. I am amazed I have not broken the shifter shaft or damaged the gearbox. At that point we removed the shifter and pounded it back on a vise which still is not good enough but usable. The IMS shifter is not as thick of steel and thats probably what you will want as I can see now, that every single time the bike falls on the left side its going to fall on the shifter. I am unsure what to do about that but the IMS shifter which is spring loaded and bends backwards like it was supposed too and I only needed to bend it out about 2 inchs. The only bad thing about the KLR650 shifter is that the 10mm bolt is on the wrong side so you have to use a skinny 10mm wrench to get to it, whereas the factory one, you can use a ratchet.
This is the shifter I have.
So when I wrecked in Jacksboro the original factory shifter which is 1/4 in thick steel bent backwards and under the foot peg. That took allot of work to get it back to just usable to get back to Jacksboro. I am amazed I have not broken the shifter shaft or damaged the gearbox. At that point we removed the shifter and pounded it back on a vise which still is not good enough but usable. The IMS shifter is not as thick of steel and thats probably what you will want as I can see now, that every single time the bike falls on the left side its going to fall on the shifter. I am unsure what to do about that but the IMS shifter which is spring loaded and bends backwards like it was supposed too and I only needed to bend it out about 2 inchs. The only bad thing about the KLR650 shifter is that the 10mm bolt is on the wrong side so you have to use a skinny 10mm wrench to get to it, whereas the factory one, you can use a ratchet.
This is the shifter I have.
JT
Forum Supporter
Honda XR's are famous for having shifter levers made of a steel with all the strength of a wet spaghetti noodle. The factory does that for a reason. A lever that is too strong will break the shaft. A mild steel lever will bend and can then be bent back straight. But, all bikes should have a lever with a folding tip. Also, check the backside of the lever for sharp edges and round them with a file. I usually take a short section of heater hose, split it and wrap it around the shifter and secure it with tie-wire so that when the shifter hits the side cover, it has less impact and might not break the cover. After many crash tests without a single cracked cover, I think it helps.
Ok, here is 2 hrs of video shortened to 5 minutes. Thanks to the guy wearing the white and black ARE pants for helping me bend the shifter back. Anyhow, watch the last 1 minute of the video and maybe someone can tell me how not to go down like I did. My opinion of the video is I was going too fast, and dodged the cow patty just on the other side of the cattle guard and got into roller bearing pea gravel and you can see my try and get out but the bike just keeps on going the way it wants to go.
Youtube link:
Youtube link:
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I Thought nailing cow patties got me extra points!!! Especially the fresh ones.
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I can't see your body position obviously, but that was not a sharp corner. I would suspect that if you are new to dirt and coming from street riding, that you were not weighting the outside of the bike going through the corner. On the street, you lean your body to the inside of the bike in a turn because there is lots of traction and that lets you keep the bike more upright. On the dirt, you do the opposite. There is less traction and more of a chance that the front or back will break loose. Here, it looks like your back end just came around on you. On dirt, you want to lean the bike into the turn but keep your body up over the outside of the bike, to keep your weight over the contact patch of the tires or even further so that you keep the bike balanced. That way if the rear slides, the bike doesn't immediately fall down and you have a chance to recover the slide. Also, you steer into the slide, just like you do with a car. Lastly, it is critical to keep your eyes UP and looking down the road in the direction you want to go!
A great deal of dirt riding is counter intuitive. This is why good training is so important.
A great deal of dirt riding is counter intuitive. This is why good training is so important.
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Just based on the video, I see the same thing. You were going too fast for your bike / tires / dirt skill level and the back tire of the bike slide out after you corrected for the cow patty.
As an fyi in relation to no one stopping for you when you went down, the group you were following in the video just prior to going down was not the group you started the day with (i.e. not the group you left Junction with on Sunday morning). My guess is the group you were chasing didn't know you were following them, weren't watching to ensure you stayed with their group, and the last guy in the group didn't see you go down.
As an fyi in relation to no one stopping for you when you went down, the group you were following in the video just prior to going down was not the group you started the day with (i.e. not the group you left Junction with on Sunday morning). My guess is the group you were chasing didn't know you were following them, weren't watching to ensure you stayed with their group, and the last guy in the group didn't see you go down.
Jeff S
Forum Supporter
Also, don't be afraid of the grass. I mighta just ridden off the road, made the turn in the very high-traction grass (assuming you've got knobbies) then point it back onto the road.
It's so easy to back-seat ride from behind the computer
. But I've been down enough to know of what I speak .
It's so easy to back-seat ride from behind the computer
. But I've been down enough to know of what I speak .
Yep, one thing I learned from my other street bike which is non abs, is when you stop on dirt/ gravel to use your back brakes only. So i got on the back brakes pretty hard, so in ABS they lock and unlock back and forth. I remember bearing down on that rear brake, and it still slid out, because I was trying to slow down fast without sliding out the front tire because I was also turning, and that edge of the road was more like 5 inches thick loose pea gravel, and anyhow the back did just whip around. So much for ABS. According to some articles I was reading BMW did a new ABS test on these adventure bikes, and said that in ALL situations, the ABS on the modern adventure bikes , even on dirt slowed the bike down faster than non-ABS and thats why they are making the bikes now without the ability to turn off the ABS. I cannot turn mine off and its annoying when you get on the brakes really hard, but I guess I will need to learn to work with it.
Actually thats a good idea. I did have to do that a couple times already on some of these rides. I have 50/50 Shenko Big Blocks on the rear, and TKC-80 on the front. You do get allot of traction, and I remember in Junction once we started getting into that red gravel, even on obviously packed surfaces the handlebars were acting like I was on sand. It was all over the place. Richard did warn about that red gravel.Also, don't be afraid of the grass. I mighta just ridden off the road, made the turn in the very high-traction grass (assuming you've got knobbies) then point it back onto the road.
It's so easy to back-seat ride from behind the computer
Jeff S
Forum Supporter
^ Ahh, ok - I think this is wrong. Don't be afraid of the front brake. But, yes, you don't want it to lock up. Locking the back is also a good tactic to 'turn with the rear' - but you would have needed to have the bike leaned over a good bit with your weight on the outside like Tourmeister says..
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That's not correct. The front brake can be safely used on and off pavement. It provides 70% or so of your stopping power so it's important to be able to use it in any situation.
You can actually turn off ABS on the Versys but it is somewhat of a hassle. I was able to do the braking drills on the Bill Dragoo class without it and that was fun. PM if you need more info, in case you don't know. If I were to do a lot of dirt I would definitely do it.
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ABS works in dirt, front and back. It's job is to stop the tires from locking up under braking.
The problem is that when riding in dirt, there are times when you want that rear tire to STOP spinning because you WANT it to slide. This can actually help the bike turn faster in sharp corners. It is a technique that needs to be practiced though.
Also, if you are just going in a straight line, locking the back tire can actually help the bike stop faster than the ABS would allow. This is because dirt/gravel might pile up in front of the back tire as it slides or digs into the surface, creating more friction than would be available otherwise. I know there have been many times on my 1200 GSs when I have stomped on that back brake expecting the bike to slow down and it just kept going because I forgot to turn off the ABS. However, I generally try to ride such that I am not having to lock up the back tire on the GS to stop. If I am, that is a sign for me to slow down!
I cannot think of any times I would want the front brake to lock when riding on the dirt unless I am already stopped. The danger is losing the front end if it stops spinning. So generally, ABS actually helps in the dirt on the front. There might be some cases, as in steep and rough descents where the tire starts bouncing and losing contact with the ground that the ABS might be a problem, but the newer bikes do pretty well even in those situations.
I had an experience where I was running about 65mph down a straight, WIDE,and smooth gravel road on my 05 R1200 GS. While smooth, it was the big chunky gravel from 1" to 1-1/2" diameter. A turkey vulture came out of the high weeds to the side of the road and I NAILED it! It glanced off the wind screen and hit the right side controls before coming up and hitting my right shoulder and glancing off my helmet as I ducked down. I started hearing an unfamiliar sound from the bike and also the familiar grinding of crunching gravel under hard braking. The ABS was still active because I had forgotten to turn it off. It turned out to be a good thing because the mirror stalk is connected to the hand controls. When the vulture hit the mirror stalk, it rolled the entire control assembly backward almost 90 degrees, causing the brake lever to hit the inside of my hand guard and compress to the full lock position. Without that ABS, my front would have locked at 65 mph and I would likely have been on the ground in a heart beat! As it was, I ground my way to a stop and stayed upright.
Many of the new bikes finally have the option to disable ABS only for the rear while leaving the front active for dirt riding. This gives you the best of both worlds. My 2017 R1200 GS even has lean angle sensors that affect how the ABS activates so that it works better while leaned over in corners. Newer bikes also have traction control that help keep the back end from slipping out under power. This is what all the various ride modes are for. On my old GSs, I had to stop and turn off the bike in order to disable the ABS. Now, I can change ride modes on the fly without the need to stop and restart the bike. This is great!
If you went down the way I think you may have. I really don't think ABS would have made much difference on the front, but it MIGHT have made a difference on the rear. Really, the biggest thing for you would have been keeping your balance on the bike while the rear slid out, kind of like flat trackers do when racing. I found it helpful to watch videos showing top riders going through corners on the dirt. Also, practicing this stuff on small lightweight bikes in a big open field helps. You are FAR less worried about tearing up your nice bike!
I did take a dirt riding class some years back. I did all three levels from beginner to advanced. On the advanced day, one of the things we learned and practiced was driving into a corner, intentionally locking up the rear so that it would slide out, looking through the corner and pointing the front where we wanted to exit, and then getting back on the power as the bike came into line with our exit point. You have to really trust the front to grip and not slide out. This means getting your weight up over that front contact patch to maximize traction. Unless you grew up riding dirt bikes, it is not a real intuitive skill.
The problem is that when riding in dirt, there are times when you want that rear tire to STOP spinning because you WANT it to slide. This can actually help the bike turn faster in sharp corners. It is a technique that needs to be practiced though.
Also, if you are just going in a straight line, locking the back tire can actually help the bike stop faster than the ABS would allow. This is because dirt/gravel might pile up in front of the back tire as it slides or digs into the surface, creating more friction than would be available otherwise. I know there have been many times on my 1200 GSs when I have stomped on that back brake expecting the bike to slow down and it just kept going because I forgot to turn off the ABS. However, I generally try to ride such that I am not having to lock up the back tire on the GS to stop. If I am, that is a sign for me to slow down!
I cannot think of any times I would want the front brake to lock when riding on the dirt unless I am already stopped. The danger is losing the front end if it stops spinning. So generally, ABS actually helps in the dirt on the front. There might be some cases, as in steep and rough descents where the tire starts bouncing and losing contact with the ground that the ABS might be a problem, but the newer bikes do pretty well even in those situations.
I had an experience where I was running about 65mph down a straight, WIDE,and smooth gravel road on my 05 R1200 GS. While smooth, it was the big chunky gravel from 1" to 1-1/2" diameter. A turkey vulture came out of the high weeds to the side of the road and I NAILED it! It glanced off the wind screen and hit the right side controls before coming up and hitting my right shoulder and glancing off my helmet as I ducked down. I started hearing an unfamiliar sound from the bike and also the familiar grinding of crunching gravel under hard braking. The ABS was still active because I had forgotten to turn it off. It turned out to be a good thing because the mirror stalk is connected to the hand controls. When the vulture hit the mirror stalk, it rolled the entire control assembly backward almost 90 degrees, causing the brake lever to hit the inside of my hand guard and compress to the full lock position. Without that ABS, my front would have locked at 65 mph and I would likely have been on the ground in a heart beat! As it was, I ground my way to a stop and stayed upright.
Many of the new bikes finally have the option to disable ABS only for the rear while leaving the front active for dirt riding. This gives you the best of both worlds. My 2017 R1200 GS even has lean angle sensors that affect how the ABS activates so that it works better while leaned over in corners. Newer bikes also have traction control that help keep the back end from slipping out under power. This is what all the various ride modes are for. On my old GSs, I had to stop and turn off the bike in order to disable the ABS. Now, I can change ride modes on the fly without the need to stop and restart the bike. This is great!
If you went down the way I think you may have. I really don't think ABS would have made much difference on the front, but it MIGHT have made a difference on the rear. Really, the biggest thing for you would have been keeping your balance on the bike while the rear slid out, kind of like flat trackers do when racing. I found it helpful to watch videos showing top riders going through corners on the dirt. Also, practicing this stuff on small lightweight bikes in a big open field helps. You are FAR less worried about tearing up your nice bike!
I did take a dirt riding class some years back. I did all three levels from beginner to advanced. On the advanced day, one of the things we learned and practiced was driving into a corner, intentionally locking up the rear so that it would slide out, looking through the corner and pointing the front where we wanted to exit, and then getting back on the power as the bike came into line with our exit point. You have to really trust the front to grip and not slide out. This means getting your weight up over that front contact patch to maximize traction. Unless you grew up riding dirt bikes, it is not a real intuitive skill.
Folks, Tgtumbleweed AIMS for cow patties. The fresher, the taller, the better-according to him. PS Don’t ride beside him.
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Don’t tell them that. I’ve been wishin years for someone to be riding beside me. Just funnin around folks. [emoji2957][emoji2957]
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- Joined
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- GEORGETOWN,TX
- First Name
- ken
- Last Name
- Musgrove
Don’t call me old and boring [emoji16]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If the signal holds out-here are a few mo pix from last weekend.
Saturday morning-everyone is fresh and raring to go.
JT shows us how it’s done.
Sometimes I forget to look around and appreciate the scenery.
Saturday night bull session in hotel parking lot.
Sunday
Spied this guy while JT was closing a gate. We waited while he moseyed across the road. Pretty good size, huh?
Interesting tiny cemetery with interesting “hysterical marker” inside it.
A large black pig high-tailed it across our path during the day. We saw other snakes but didn’t get pix.
Also had a nice conversation with a rancher and his wife and another couple out cruising in their atv. They were quite surprised to see us but happily told us of some other good dirt roads in the area.
Saturday morning-everyone is fresh and raring to go.
JT shows us how it’s done.
Sometimes I forget to look around and appreciate the scenery.
Saturday night bull session in hotel parking lot.
Sunday
Spied this guy while JT was closing a gate. We waited while he moseyed across the road. Pretty good size, huh?
Interesting tiny cemetery with interesting “hysterical marker” inside it.
A large black pig high-tailed it across our path during the day. We saw other snakes but didn’t get pix.
Also had a nice conversation with a rancher and his wife and another couple out cruising in their atv. They were quite surprised to see us but happily told us of some other good dirt roads in the area.
We stopped and helped someone out on a Versys-X 300.
Dirt riding is a blast but definitely a different riding technique then street. Those guys you where following right before you crashed are pretty fast. I was cruising the sand out of Castell at about 50-55mph and they came blowing past. I looked over and I swear the guy on the KTM was standing on his seat doing ballet. I know it was my mind playing tricks on me but was the **** funniest sight I ever saw. I tried to keep up with them later and I crashed in a turn as well
The rallies can be a bit chaotic with so many folks and differing skill levels. I've been separated from a group before as well. I walk around and talk to folks the night before if I can get there early and try to find a smaller group to ride with. Don't let it discourage you, plenty of awesome people. Just look out for the older guys, they're all ninjas in disguise, unless you can get them to impart some of their ninja riding wisdom upon you.
Cheers!
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Honda XR's are famous for having shifter levers made of a steel with all the strength of a wet spaghetti noodle. The factory does that for a reason.
Yes, but the lever is strong enough to punch a hole in the side case if the bike falls over in your driveway. I did that twice before I added a solution.
J