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Brake Lines

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Manfred

Manfred

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Joined
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Location
La Vernia, TX
First Name
Stuart
Last Name
Brogden
I have rebuilt the calipers and replaced the master cylinder on my 1985 Honda Sabre. People on the V-bike muscle forum tell me I should replace the brake lines. Apex quoted me $115 for what I need but I am having trouble spending that without knowing if my brake lines are suspect.
 
All honda rubber brake lines are bad , expect a 5 year life span at best . If your brakes are spongy grabby and hard to control the lines are bad the most positive cure is braided stainless lines , they come on all of my bikes and are lifetime . I replaced the lines on a valkrie at 5 years old , the brakes went from model t mechanicl feeling brakes to full disc with kevlar lining brakes . The gold wing i bought was just as bad , horrible brakes . The brake system was super complicated and included 18 different hoses , that bike got sold for scrap .
 
Cagiva 549 said:
All honda rubber brake lines are bad , expect a 5 year life span at best . If your brakes are spongy grabby and hard to control the lines are bad the most positive cure is braided stainless lines , they come on all of my bikes and are lifetime . I replaced the lines on a valkrie at 5 years old , the brakes went from model t mechanicl feeling brakes to full disc with kevlar lining brakes . The gold wing i bought was just as bad , horrible brakes . The brake system was super complicated and included 18 different hoses , that bike got sold for scrap .
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I didn't notice any brake fade. When I was removing the front wheel, I rotated with my hand and discovered it was nearly impossible to move. A piston on one of my calipers was frozen. Disc had not been damaged. So I ended up replacing that caliper, rebuilding the other one and replacing the master cylinder. Have started bleeding it when people began telling me to replace the brake lines. Original equipment.
 
lddave said:
If you are going to change them use steel branded lines .
Click to expand...

One fella told me the old rubber hoses could be breaking down inside and have a bit of detached material acting as a restrictor or shut-off valve. I bit the bullet and ordered the steel braided lines.
 
I've never had this much trouble bleeding brakes on a bike. Sucked air out through both nipples, then put a drain hose on one while I pushed fluid up through the other. Fluid with no bubbles came up into the master and out of the drain hose. Closed everything, topped off the master, capped it - and nothing. With the cap off, a small fountain of fluid gets pushed up. That tells me the master is working. Why no resistance when I work the handle?
 
You might have bubbles higher in the system. With pressure on (brake lever held in) crack each banjo joint.
 
I did that this morning - bench bled the master, then burped each banjo from splitter to each caliper. Still no resistance at handle. While bench bleeding the MC, pressure.
 
This might help. Use a rubber band with enough pressure to pull the lever about 1/3 to 1/2 of the throw. Let it sit over night.

The idea is to allow any air in the lines to bleed through the master cylinder.

I have had good success with this.
 
Sounds like you’ve tried just about everything. Have you tried reverse bleeding? Forcing brake fluid towards the master cylinder from the bleeder? I use a syringe.

One last thought and I’m out of ideas. With pressure applied crack the banjo at the caliper and check for flow. I’ve gone so far as to remove a line and block it with my finger to see if there is any pressure.

If pressure is good I would suspect the caliper.
 
I've rebuilt the calipers before starting any of this bleeding. I have pushed fluid up from the left caliper, which forced fluid (with no air bubbles) out the right caliper bleed valve and into the MC. The lines are new braided steel. I am ready to shoot it.
 
rtbain said:
Long shot. Did the fluid come out the master cylinder too?
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Yes. Hey - is there a way to determine if the seal in the barrels of the calipers need replacing? Air could get past those if they are bad - fluid might not.
 
The only method I know of is a visual inspection.

I wasn’t much help. Those are all the tricks I know.

When I get into a situation like this I walk away for awhile. Then start from square one. Take it all apart and begin anew. Sometimes you find something out of place you didn’t notice before.

Oh , it’s not ABS is it?
 
rtbain said:
The only method I know of is a visual inspection.

I wasn’t much help. Those are all the tricks I know.

When I get into a situation like this I walk away for awhile. Then start from square one. Take it all apart and begin anew. Sometimes you find something out of place you didn’t notice before.

Oh , it’s not ABS is it?
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I went ahead and ordered new seals and some red grease. It will give me another break until they arrive.
 
Manfred said:
Yes. Hey - is there a way to determine if the seal in the barrels of the calipers need replacing? Air could get past those if they are bad - fluid might not.
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I'm confused here, didn't you replace those when you rebuilt the calipers? I'd think if you were having problems with the seals at the caliper, they'd be leaking fluid and not necessarily air.

I've been there, pulled apart my caliper so many times, and the master. Ended up so tired of the smell and feel of brake fluid that I tossed in the towel and took it to a mechanic. I was having an issue in mine that it kept locking up the caliper. Mechanic solved it with a few washers to shim the caliper over. Later, when my Trail Tech speedo went out because I broke the wire, I found that the sensor was what was pushing the caliper. All fixed now and no washers needed.

That doesn't help you at all I know, but I do know the feeling of frustration you are having right now.

If you were closer I'd come by and we could figure out all kinds of ways to not get it working. :D
 
gixxerjasen said:
I'm confused here, didn't you replace those when you rebuilt the calipers? I'd think if you were having problems with the seals at the caliper, they'd be leaking fluid and not necessarily air.

I've been there, pulled apart my caliper so many times, and the master. Ended up so tired of the smell and feel of brake fluid that I tossed in the towel and took it to a mechanic. I was having an issue in mine that it kept locking up the caliper. Mechanic solved it with a few washers to shim the caliper over. Later, when my Trail Tech speedo went out because I broke the wire, I found that the sensor was what was pushing the caliper. All fixed now and no washers needed.

That doesn't help you at all I know, but I do know the feeling of frustration you are having right now.

If you were closer I'd come by and we could figure out all kinds of ways to not get it working. :D
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I did not replace those when I rebuilt the calipers. Thanks for your understanding and relaying your experience.
 
Crazy idea. Does this bike have anti-dive fork clamps like the Goldwings of this era?
Probably not. I was just thinking if could there be another portion of the circuit that isn’t bleeding.

I can’t imagine it has linked brakes either.
 
dukey33 said:
Crazy idea. Does this bike have anti-dive fork clamps like the Goldwings of this era?
Probably not. I was just thinking if could there be another portion of the circuit that isn’t bleeding.

I can’t imagine it has linked brakes either.
Click to expand...

No and no - but I appreciate the thought!
 
I put a set of ss lines on my RZ. Could never get them to work, till I used the original banjo bolts. The bolts galfer sent were drilled wrong and wouldn't line up with the holes in the line. Pretty doubtful that's the case here, but.....
 
Liteitup said:
I put a set of ss lines on my RZ. Could never get them to work, till I used the original banjo bolts. The bolts galfer sent were drilled wrong and wouldn't line up with the holes in the line. Pretty doubtful that's the case here, but.....
Click to expand...
I bought mine from Apex and the banjo bolts worked fine.
 
Got new seals for the calipers and red grease for assembly. Will get back after it tomorrow.
 
Puzzlement. Main and dust seals (new) went into one caliper with no trouble. On the other caliper, main seals went in fine; dust seals (new ones the same size as what I removed) are too long! I've cleaned the slot and pressed them in using the wide end of a socket extension. Lubed with brake fluid. The dust seals seem too long!
 
Scraped and cleaned and lubricated and FINALLY got the final dust seals in place. Now to fill and bleed.
 
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