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List of stations that sell ethanol-free gas in the U.S. and Canada

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Hmmmm. . . I have two 5-gallon cans. Maybe next time I'm in Bowie . . .
 
:tab Jim was buying ethanol free gas in Oklahoma on our way to Arkansas last weekend. There are several stations in Atoka on US 69/75, all Valero stations, that have it. I was talking with the owners on our return trip when we stopped to top off all of Jim's spare gas cans. They said that in two years, ALL gas must contain ethanol and you will no longer be able to get ethanol free gas anywhere... :angryfire
 
Tourmeister said:
:tab They said that in two years, ALL gas must contain ethanol and you will no longer be able to get ethanol free gas anywhere... :angryfire
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Wow that really sucks. I wish the government would stay out of it and let us buy what we want.
 
Senator Jim Inhofe has introduced legislation that would allow states to opt out of the ethanol requirement. We'll see how it goes. I may have to rig up some apparatus to remove the ethanol with water, then bump the octane rating back up with avgas. Stickin' it to the man!
 
aggie81 said:
Senator Jim Inhofe has introduced legislation that would allow states to opt out of the ethanol requirement. We'll see how it goes. I may have to rig up some apparatus to remove the ethanol with water, then bump the octane rating back up with avgas. Stickin' it to the man!
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No doubt this behavior will be criminalized on par with making Meth ;-)
 
Tourmeister said:
:tab Jim was buying ethanol free gas in Oklahoma on our way to Arkansas last weekend. There are several stations in Atoka on US 69/75, all Valero stations, that have it. I was talking with the owners on our return trip when we stopped to top off all of Jim's spare gas cans. They said that in two years, ALL gas must contain ethanol and you will no longer be able to get ethanol free gas anywhere... :angryfire
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I know several stations in the Broken Bow area of Oklahoma have Ethanol free gas as well. Those country boys don't like change.
 
Does it have to be posted on the pumps that the gas contains ethanol? Many of the stations by me aren't posted and the attendants haven't a clue if the gas contains E or not?
 
Having been in the gas station business I will say that what the pump has posted and what you your are getting do not always match.
 
Ouroboros said:
Having been in the gas station business I will say that what the pump has posted and what you your are getting do not always match.
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DING!! great big distribution terminal is not gonna do anything different for a couple little stations.

most gas stations get their fuel from the same source, only a couple oil companies have their own pipe lines feeding their own distribution system.
 
focus frenzy said:
DING!! great big distribution terminal is not gonna do anything different for a couple little stations.

most gas stations get their fuel from the same source, only a couple oil companies have their own pipe lines feeding their own distribution system.
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Not sure what your saying.

My fuel was delivered from three different terminals. I also had the opportunity to purchase the fuel with or without the additives. No additives=more profit. There are many opportunities to purchase less than quality fuel from a distributor, they will even sell fuel that has been pumped out of station that has been closed. Of course all this could have changed in the last 10 years.
 
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There may not be a federal law requiring labeling, but Texas requires it. The fine for selling ethanol-tainted gasoline without a warning label is $500 per pump per day. About half of the stations ignore or are unaware of the law. Apparently it's unenforced. I'm sure the ethanol lobby would go nuts if a station were actually fined.
 
http://www.fuel-testers.com/state_guide_ethanol_laws.html

The testing I've been doing shows ethanol contents of fuels labeled "may contain up to 10% ethanol" range from 0 to 20%. What's really odd is that the extremes came from the same pump on different days. No way a bike jetted for one extreme will run well with the other. That said, all E10 products vary a little due to the ethanol's affinity for absorbing water from the atmosphere, evaporation, spillage, just plain sloppy mixing, and who knows what else.

I expect the ethanol lobby is becoming toxic as citizens suffer more and more hassles and expense due to ethanol-contaminated fuel. I expect it won't be long before ethanol is passé. Already many ethanol producers are filing bankruptcy. http://www.google.com/search?source...11l0l8450l23l22l0l7l7l0l431l3343l2-4.3.3l10l0
 
Just goes to show what happens when the government gets involved with picking winners through subsidies. Butanol is a better match as a replacement for gasoline than ethanol as it's energy content per gallon is much closer. You can basically run it in a gasoline engine at 100% levels without having to change any engine management controls. There was even a debate on whether to subsidize it or ethanol back when the subsidies went into affect. Ethanol lobbyist won out and the mold was set. Without those subsidies we might very well be using butanol instead of ethanol and everyone would probably be happier for it. Well except for the ethanol lobby.
 
Ouroboros said:
Not sure what your saying.

My fuel was delivered from three different terminals. I also had the opportunity to purchase the fuel with or without the additives. No additives=more profit. There are many opportunities to purchase less than quality fuel from a distributor, they will even sell fuel that has been pumped out of station that has been closed. Of course all this could have changed in the last 10 years.
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the fuel we get comes from one company but it does come from random terminals. often it comes from the same place with the random differant terminal thrown in.

we mostly deal in diesel and go through better than 7000 gallons a day. with the switch to diesel for the larger one way trucks we don't through much unleaded but from the smell it is the cheepest stuff available. (exxon!)
 
Buffalo said:
Just goes to show what happens when the government gets involved with picking winners through subsidies. Butanol is a better match as a replacement for gasoline than ethanol as it's energy content per gallon is much closer. You can basically run it in a gasoline engine at 100% levels without having to change any engine management controls. There was even a debate on whether to subsidize it or ethanol back when the subsidies went into affect. Ethanol lobbyist won out and the mold was set. Without those subsidies we might very well be using butanol instead of ethanol and everyone would probably be happier for it. Well except for the ethanol lobby.
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I just looked that up!

you could make it with some algea and solar energy (BioButanol)
that is way to clean and good for the earth to work!:lol2:
wikipedia link
 
OilMasters, a station and oil change place here (in Kilgore) sells regular without ethanol. However, their pumps are aged -- no card reader -- so you have to get gas when there's someone available to take you cash or card. And they close about 6 p.m. weekdays and 3-ish on Saturdays.
 
Buffalo said:
Just goes to show what happens when the government gets involved with picking winners through subsidies. Butanol is a better match as a replacement for gasoline than ethanol as it's energy content per gallon is much closer. You can basically run it in a gasoline engine at 100% levels without having to change any engine management controls. There was even a debate on whether to subsidize it or ethanol back when the subsidies went into affect. Ethanol lobbyist won out and the mold was set. Without those subsidies we might very well be using butanol instead of ethanol and everyone would probably be happier for it. Well except for the ethanol lobby.[/QUOTE]

Those subsidies are going, going, ... . Ethanol production facilities are filing bankruptcy left and right, but are easily converted to butanol production. People have less disposable income and are beginning to choose gas stations based on fuel efficiency instead of covenience. E15B runs significantly more efficiently than E10 since butonal does not act as an anticatalyst to flame front propogation as does ethanol. Over the next few years expect stations to begin selecting butanol instead of ethanol to meet fuel oxygenation regulations.
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I hope that is true but with the government still sticking it's nose in I'm not sure it will happen.
 
Butanol has a low-temp viscosity problem so will probably never replace gasoline 100%, but it dissolves well with gasoline and does not absrob water or rot parts nearly as fast as ethanol. We are just starting to play with butanol in the lab this semester. I thought I heard one of the bigshots telling students for the same energy input, twice the volume of butanol could be derived from distillation as could ethanol, which would be a 180% increase in energy potential over ethanol. That would make butanol production energy positive. He also stated that butanol in some circumstances increases the efficiency of the gasoline with which it is mixed, yielding greater net energy and efficiency than the physics would suggest. The chemists claim butanol is sufficiently inert that it can be handled and transported just like gasoline, which means cheaper pipeline deliveries of large volumes over many miles instead of trucks.
 
It is not a panacea, it has some issues that still need to be resolved. It's just a better substitute for gasoline than ethanol.

My point was that if the government had not got involved with pushing ethanol then business might well have pushed ahead with resolving those issues and putting butanol on the market. When government starts picking winners it distorts the market place.
 
KenH said:
Butanol has a low-temp viscosity problem so will probably never replace gasoline 100%, but it dissolves well with gasoline and does not absrob water or rot parts nearly as fast as ethanol. We are just starting to play with butanol in the lab this semester. I thought I heard one of the bigshots telling students for the same energy input, twice the volume of butanol could be derived from distillation as could ethanol, which would be a 180% increase in energy potential over ethanol. That would make butanol production energy positive. He also stated that butanol in some circumstances increases the efficiency of the gasoline with which it is mixed, yielding greater net energy and efficiency than the physics would suggest. The chemists claim butanol is sufficiently inert that it can be handled and transported just like gasoline, which means cheaper pipeline deliveries of large volumes over many miles instead of trucks.
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So if this is correct, how did Ethanol become the favored horse by government? Must have been some very poor marketing by the butanol side.. :eek2:

Gary
 
Or there was just a bigger lobbying organization in place for ethanol. Governments don't necessarily do things because that are the best thing to do. They often do them to make the biggest group of their supporters happy.
 
khager said:
This butanol sounds too good to be true, but I hope you all are right.
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Thrasherg said:
So if this is correct, how did Ethanol become the favored horse by government? Must have been some very poor marketing by the butanol side.. :eek2:

Gary
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Cold weather starting is tough with butanol, but it also mixes easily with diesel or vegie oils to make a good bio-diesel. Also, its (R+M)/2 octane rating is only 87, which leaves it wanting for high performance engines. Toluene easily bumps the octane rating up, just like it does with gasoline. 10% Toluene will yield 89.7, 20% will yield 92.4, 30% will yield 95.1, and 40% (highest concentration allowed by law) will yield 97.8.

Buffalo said:
Or there was just a bigger lobbying organization in place for ethanol. Governments don't necessarily do things because that are the best thing to do. They often do them to make the biggest group of their supporters happy.
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Exactly. Ethanol subsidies were a farm vote program, not an environmental program. Big farmers were provided with loans backed by the government to invest in ethanol production. Today, farmers will be fine without the subsidies, demand for meat by increasingly affluent people in India and China are driving feed grain markets, so the subsidies are no longer necessary for farmers to prosper.

Butanol is also being made today from CO2 using solar energy and from biowastes of genetically modified ecoli bacteria. Several methods of manufacture have brought the price down to about $0.80/gallon. Look for ethanol to be phased out and butanol to be phased in over the next few years.
 
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