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Anyone know about an bad bike accident Saturday early a.m. between Bandera and Kerrville?

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Thorndale, tx
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Ed
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Baker
Dannyboy, my friend Sal from AZ, and I took off from the Hill Country Hangout in Kerrville around 9:30 and went towards Bandera, and came across a bad wreck 10 minutes from town. They had just hauled the rider off in an ambulance, slowly without sirens towards San Antonio. He was on a nicely farkled GS1250 just like several I'd seen at the Hill Country Hangout and I feared the worst. We turned around went back and I grabbed a few pics to see if someone knew the rider and could update us. Emergency personnel simply said he'd been transported to the hospital. He hit a 10 inch fence post after hitting the fence and sheared it off. You can see it it one of the pics. The bike had huge damage to it. Just enlarging the pics I saw the cracked valve cover from the crash bar coming into it, likely from the fence post collision. I really hope the rider is recovering ok, but if he was on the bike when it hit the fence and post, it may have been fatal. San Antonio license plate on it. Headed towards the rally but had not made it. Rally personnel said they did not know of the accident, so I guess it was not one of the registered attendees. Been praying for him but would like to know more about his condition and the incident. It was one of those places where its hard to imagine an accident occurring.
 

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That is awful. Since there is a BMW of San Antonio license plate frame someone at the rally has to know him. They probably just won’t find out about it until they get home.
 
Was it on a curve?
Yes. Only a slight turn really, 60mph posted on the Bandera highway. It looked like it would be a left. Perhas a 10 foot wide, slightly lowered drainage to cross when exiting pavement as well.
 
It's just astounding how often bad crashes happen in spots where there's so little reason to. Course the hill country offers random deer, hogs, dogs, buzzards, etc...in abundance that can take down any of us quicker than you can blink. Hope the guy was geared up and had only an unpleasant bounce.
 
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Yes. Only a slight turn really, 60mph posted on the Bandera highway. It looked like it would be a left. Perhas a 10 foot wide, slightly lowered drainage to cross when exiting pavement as well.
Kinda what I figured!
It's just astounding how often bad crashes happen in spots where there's so little reason to.
That's becasue so any people do not know how to ride. A lot of people think going to the MSF course was enough training and they'll just "practice while they ride" then they end up running through a fence near Bandera.

P.S. I'm not saying that's what happened with the guy above but.......
 
Kinda what I figured!

That's becasue so any people do not know how to ride. A lot of people think going to the MSF course was enough training and they'll just "practice while they ride" then they end up running through a fence near Bandera.

P.S. I'm not saying that's what happened with the guy above but.......
As a new rider, I definitely know that I "do not know how to ride" as well as many others. How would you recommend someone improve?
 
As a new rider, I definitely know that I "do not know how to ride" as well as many others. How would you recommend someone improve?
I've ridden for 53 years, 51 of which were almost entirely off-road. Pavement sent me into pucker factor 11.

So, when I got a street-able bike in 2022, I attended every riders' gathering I could, especially the TWT gatherings. This was the perfect application of what my grandpa called 'God's perfect ratio: 2 - 2 - 1.'

He'd say, "You've got two eyes, two ears, and one mouth. Look and listen twice as much as you speak."

So, I listened to experienced riders. I watched how they rode. Then I followed guys like Boulder Ed and William Wolfen to see examples of the what I heard and saw previously.

I'm certainly no tarmac terror (yet), but I've reduced the pucker factor 10-fold and continue to learn.

I'll bet this will work for you just as well as it worked for me.
 
I aimed for a tree rather than the barbwire fence , the tree was much more comfortable , well maintained dirt road with really good traction untill a sweeper at the bottom of a nice hill that was paved with marbles . Ditch traction was better than the road surface . I did ride my bike home that day with some plastic strapped to the back . Had to hurry home and beat the dark since the headlight was part of that plastic .
 
As a new rider, I definitely know that I "do not know how to ride" as well as many others. How would you recommend someone improve?
Taking additional training classes if the best way to learn quickly. You can order some cones and go to a parking lot and practice the new things you learned. If you are good at slow speed maneuvers, then maneuvers at speed are easy. As Motojitsu on Youtube says, "if you practice white belt techniques for thirty years, you're still a white belt"! As you get better your riding techniques will change because you will be ready for new techniques not taught in the basic rider course.

P.S. There is nothing wrong with being a "new rider"! We've all been new riders at one point. The problem is that the vast majority of riders spend little time practicing new techniques or taking additional training. This is the number one cause of most motorcycle accidents in my opinion. Very few motorcycle accidents are due to mechanical failure therefore rider input could have prevented the accident to a certain extent.
 
As a new rider, I definitely know that I "do not know how to ride" as well as many others. How would you recommend someone improve?
Small dirt bike for sure. I recommend something like a KLX-140, TTR-125, CRF-100 or similar. Learn to push it to its limits with you aboard and then change your limits. Absent a dirt bike, practice. By practice, I don't mean just ride. While riding down the highway alone, grab the grips tightly and try to swerve hard back and forth, then grab the tank tightly with your knees, relax your upper body and do the same swerve motion with your hands relaxed. The first will be hard and the second will be easy. In an emergency, the first reaction of grabbing the grips tightly is a natural instinct. You have to learn to fight it. Relax in an emergency. Practice emergencies in your head. I play the "WHAT IF" game while riding so I can practice for emergencies while there is no emergency. Example: What if that car pulls out in front of me? How hard can I brake on this pavement? Could I swerve and miss the car? Would a little lateral motion make me more visible to the driver while also putting me in a better position to respond to his bad driving? If my current lane position is the safest position, could I move laterally and then move back, just to be more visible? If a rider does not practice in their mind for an emergency, according to the Hurt report, they will most likely do NOTHING in a true emergency.

Learn to slow down with your eyes. In most cases where someone runs off the road in a corner, it isn't necessary. They are looking at the road too close in front of them and it seems like they are flying, they panic and clamp down on the handlebars while looking exactly where they see the danger. They target fixate and run off the road and crash while others in the group successfully negotiate the corner. Exercise: Imagine you are in the back seat of a moving car, and you are scrunched down in the seat so that the only thing you can see is the top of a mountain miles away from you. Even if the car is going 100 MPH, your sensation will be you are riding in a stopped or nearly stopped car. Now open the door of the car and look at the white dashes flashing past you. It will seem like you are going extremely fast. By looking through the windshield of the car, it will instantly seem like the car is going slower. If you are going too fast approaching a corner, look further into the corner and you will instantly slow down in your brain and be able to relax and make a good decision. That decision may still be to run off the road, but at least looking further into the corner will allow you to pick your line while running off the road instead of target fixating on that big rock that's right in your path.

Learn to pick brake spots and turn in spots while approaching corners, even if you have never been on that stretch of road. It gives you reference points that you can keep in your peripheral vision to use or to modify as you get closer. In most cases, you will modify your reference points as you get closer to the turn. Reference points let you relax more. Reference points also allow you to more easily resist the natural urge to turn in early. An early apex on the street is nearly always wrong, but our brain says the edge of the road is a danger zone and we must turn in early to stay away from it. Resist that urge.

Don't let your MSF basic course be your last trip to an empty parking lot. Take an advanced course. Find an empty parking lot and practice. Lock up your tires with the brakes one at a time to see how it feels. Caution: When you lock up the rear brake, leave it locked up until you stop, or the front and rear tires are lined up. When you lock up the front brake, be ready to release it when the bike gets unruly. I once asked Jamie James, who was the current AMA superbike national champion at that time, why he looked so squirrely going into a fast turn at Texas world Speedway. He told me he was way ahead of second place and had decided to practice locking up his front brake. If the champion needs practice, so do you and me. Practice the same exercises you learned in the MSF course, while riding faster if possible.

. Other than 1st gear or stopped, I have fallen down once in 62 years of riding, and I ride a lot, more than 100,000 miles in the last 5 years alone. That fall in 1970 was caused by me not seeing antifreeze on the road. I have never touched a car while riding. Michael Martin is arguably the best endurance racer ever in the sport of motorcycle road racing. His percentage of winning to crashing is phenomenal, sometimes riding years without crashing. He didn't have to fall down to find his limits and you don't have to crash to learn how not to crash. Relax, think and have fun.

I repeat, learn to ride a small dirt bike to its limits. My first ride, besides street bikes, was a 50cc Sears Allstate moped that I learned to ride past all reasonable limits.
 
Dirt riding is by far the best training , its all I rode till a little over 20 years ago . The bike is automatic , your head can concentrate on street smarts all the time rather than trying to remember which side the clutch is on or if you need to shift up or down . The funny part is over the years on the road when things get wonky the ditch is just fine .
 
Study Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist. Do a track day. I learned wayyy more in my first TD than all the years of road riding put together.

A lot of the youtube tutorials are on low-speed bike handling. While that can be very useful in everyday riding, those skills won't help as much when you're rolling along at speed, which is undoubtedly what happened to this GS rider. Dare I say most single (2-wheel) vehicle crashes - unless it involves animals - are caused by what Keith Coder coined survival instincts. Learning how to overcome them is the best way of preventing on-road crashes. A rider that doesn't know his limits and how far away he is from them will NOT have the confidence to dip into his reserves when the moment hits. Panic strikes, survival instincts takes over, and off into the weeds.

As @Tigerkf's quote rightfully pointed out: "if you practice white belt techniques for thirty years, you're still a white belt"! Problem with "practicing" advance riding on public roads is that it requires pushing a rider's limits. There is just no safe way to do that at speed on public roads. Parking lot maneuvers? Sure... all day long. How to snap into a corner entry at higher speeds? Or tighten your turning radius mid-corner... at 40-50mph, beyond what you are comfortable? I wouldn't want to do that in an environment where road hazards could pop up any minute. Instead, do that in a controlled environment, where you have the safety and repetitions to hone those skills. And to build the confidence of knowing what you are capable of, so you can push to your limits when necessary.
 
Problem with "practicing" advance riding on public roads is that it requires pushing a rider's limits.
This is 100 percent incorrect!!! Trail braking is an advanced technique NOT taught in the MSF course and it does NOT require you to push your limits to practice it on public roads. You must be confusing riding techniques with riding fast. They are NOT the same! Maybe you think hanging off the bike trying to get a knee down is an advanced technique. That is a racing (track) technique not applicable for the streets except when trying to show off.

those skills won't help as much when you're rolling along at speed
Another 100 percent incorrect statement!!! So you're saying that after motor officers finish a two week class of low speed manuevers they are NOT prepared for traveling at speed because they only practiced low speed? Total nonsense!
 
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As @Tigerkf's quote rightfully pointed out: "if you practice white belt techniques for thirty years, you're still a white belt"! Problem with "practicing" advance riding on public roads is that it requires pushing a rider's limits. There is just no safe way to do that at speed on public roads. Parking lot maneuvers? Sure... all day long. How to snap into a corner entry at higher speeds? Or tighten your turning radius mid-corner... at 40-50mph, beyond what you are comfortable? I wouldn't want to do that in an environment where road hazards could pop up any minute. Instead, do that in a controlled environment, where you have the safety and repetitions to hone those skills. And to build the confidence of knowing what you are capable of, so you can push to your limits when necessary.
The techniques for going slow are essentially the same techniques for going fast. A common phrase heard at track days is that if you want to learn to be fast, you first have to learn to be slow. The physics of how the bike handles is the same. What changes is the amount of time you have to make decisions and to react if something is going wrong. So it is true that some parking lot techniques don't necessarily apply to highway speeds on roads, road speed techniques are the same whether you are going 30 mph or 100 mph. This is what Keith Code emphasizes in the Twist of the Wrist II when he discusses 7 common survival reactions, why they are the WRONG reactions, and what the correct reactions should be. IF you master these reactions at slower speeds, they will apply just as much at faster highway speeds or even racing speeds. It is not that you need different techniques for going faster. Instead, what you need is the ability to be familiar and comfortable with the sensations of going fast so that you are better able to make good judgements in a timely manner.

What is very common among new riders is that they try to go fast before they have learned these basic skills and they end up scaring themselves going into a corner too fast. They panic. They stand up and/or brake. They crash. Or, they are going to fast and have to brake hard, but they have not practiced that at slower speeds. They panic. They GRAB the front brake or STOMP on the back brake. They crash.

Code also talks about how we spend our attention. We only have a limited amount of attention we can devote to processing what is going on around us. Anything demanding our attention comes at a cost. If the costs of all the things demanding attention exceeds our total capacity, then something is being ignored. New users typically haven't learned what needs and doesn't need their attention. Also, they haven't converted things like working the clutch, brakes, and throttle to muscle memory, which reduces the attention needed for these tasks. The end result is they are often running near their max capacity and feel overwhelmed, which makes it easy to make mistakes. Spending time at low speeds, even in a parking lot, to master these basic skills will translate into freeing up attention while riding at higher speeds that can then be used for monitoring the environment, the road, available traction, etc...

All of the above is why I strongly suggest new riders take a track day course as soon as they can. It is not about racing. It is about learning how bikes handle, how your inputs affect the bike, and how to make your inputs work with the bike instead of against the bike. Moreover, being in a controlled environment, it is safer for new riders to be devoting more of their available attention to these basics rather than worrying about traffic, animals, or anything else. Instructors will work with you and help you identify and break bad habits and teach you the proper habits. Most insurance companies will cover bikes at track days so long as you make sure the understand that you are NOT racing, but rather are engaged in closed course instruction. I had USAA and Progressive and both of them covered my bikes for track days. Now, if you start competing, they will NOT cover you.

The other big benefit of a track day is that it gets you relaxed. When you are relaxed, you ride smoother. Smoother is more controlled. Smoother means less panic if something unexpected happens. It means you are already riding somewhat defensively and on smart lines, giving you more time to think and react to the unexpected. In the end, your road speed will likely become faster and safer with less effort. Also, there is something about riding on the track that makes you appreciate the lack of run off areas when riding on the road. I found that while in general I was faster and smoother after doing track days, I ended up not pushing as hard on the street as I had been doing prior to the track days. Also, I have had numerous close call experiences where I was able to negotiate the problem because I was doing what I was trained to do, which kept me from panicking and doing the wrong thing.

Never out ride your line of sight, braking distance, or your headlight. This has saved me on many occasions.

Knowledge of common issues faced by street riders is also important. There is a book by David Hough, Proficient Motorcycling, or something like that. In that book he discussed numerous common issues encountered by street riders, why they are problems, and how to deal with them. The Twist of the Wrist II and Proficient Motorcycling both had a huge impact on my riding. I can't even begin to count the number of times I got into a situation and something from one or both of those books instantly popped into my head and allowed me to do the right thing to avoid the problem. I highly recommend them both. They make excellent bathroom books :-P
 
The nature of a tandem 2-wheel motorcycle produces two distinct regime of vehicle dynamics - which are very much divided by how fast/slow you go. I think some here misunderstood what I meant by that. Let me explain...

At very slow speeds, taking a turn does not produce enough centrifugal force to counter-act force of gravity pulling on a motorcycle that is lean to the inside. The consequence is that the rider needs to lean to the opposite (out)side, using his body weight to counteract. If you look at the myriad of youtube videos teaching tight U-Turns, figure-8, etc. That is the regime those instructions are operating in. As you increase speed and start producing some useful centrifugal force, the technique still requires the ride to counter-lean to the outside to make the tight turn. Operating in this regime requires proficiency in SLOW SPEED techniques.

If turning speed increases further, so does centrifugal force. At some point, instead of the centrifugal force helping to counter-act gravity pulling the leaning bike's weight - it now begins to overwhelm it. It is at this inflection point, above which the rider must switch techniques. Instead of counter-leaning to the outside... ride now needs to lean with the bike to the inside to help fight the increasing centrifugal force. Operating in this regime requires proficiency in FAST SPEED techniques.

I am not at all dismissing the importance of slow speed techniques. However, the fact of the matter is, if a rider makes a mistake operating in this regime, it is highly unlikely to cause fatality or put you in the hospital in critical condition.

Most of our on-road riding is done in the high speed regime. consequently, it is also where the majority of serious accidents occur.

Another difference is while slow speed proficiency is great to have, there are other - albeit less graceful - methods of mitigation. In many ways, I still suck at slow speed techniques. So, if I cannot make a tight turn, well... I'll chicken out and do my 3-point turn. Or 5 point... maybe 7 point. Doing a figure-8 inside of 4 parking spaces? Pfff... forgettaboutit. I think I'll just do my ballerina toe dance and back into the spot instead.

High speed proficiency? That is not optional. And a rider's life could depend on it.
 
Dont meanta derail yalls train o thought but....

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Anyone ever hear anything about the rider?
I looked online and couldn't find anything in that area. I sure hope the rider made it. Maybe the ambulance left with no lights because the rider walked away from it. It would be a miracle for sure.
 
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