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How can I safely approach getting on the road?

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Average(Wes)

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San Angelo, TX (school) Marble Falls, TX (Summer)
So I am a prospective rider looking to get a '99-'08 sv650 for a first bike, mainly due to its dirt cheap price, cheap insurance, cheap maintenance, and reported reliability. I just got my M rating and have no road experience on two wheels. I do have a full suit of safety gear but don't have much of a budget to blow.

I am trying my best to be as safe as possible, so I am trying to figure out what would be the best method of moving forward with minimal endangerment to myself or others. I am considering renting a somewhat lower-displacement bike for a few days when I go to Austin for spring break, to get a feel for riding. But that kinda sounds like jumping into a pool and only reading about swimming, not ideal. I have a friend who offered to follow and help out where he can, but he only has 3 years of on-road experience and rides and Aprillia Tuono, so I am not so sure about his ability to teach effectively.

My main question is how do I get over the learning curve from the minimal amount of experience I have to a point where I have enough to deal with most situations effectively?

I have my glider pilot license, so I am considering trying to emulate the teaching methods I learned from that process. They manage to consistently pull brand new people into piloting an aircraft in 3 dimensions and without an engine through a single summer, with extremely low accident rates and once-in-a-blue-moon fatalities. So I figure that this process has some merit.
The process is: ride along with the instructor -> fly with the instructor ready to take over -> solo flight with the instructor watching -> thorough flight exam => PIlots license

The common factor is a skilled instructor, who not only knows how to ride well but also knows how to teach riding well. I know I have little knowledge and ability to tell what advice to take and what to avoid. I would just straight up ask if someone would be willing to ride along, but I am unsure whether anyone would want to and I would rather get some advice on how to find someone/approach the situation than just not have anyone say anything. So if you have any input please let me know! Any advice is appreciated.


Thanks!

Detailed description for those interested: (part of an unfinished essay a while back)
The process starts on the ground with an instructor talking about various aspects of the surrounding situation, sharing advice, and generally transferring information. Once ready, the flight starts with the instructor sitting in the back piloting the plane on tow, then handing over control of the plane to the student. The point where the student takes control comes sooner and more frequently until the student is in control of the entire flight, which usually takes 5-7 trips. The student starts racking up flight hours with the instructor in the back until the instructor believes the student has enough mastery of the glider, which is when the student starts flying solo. Here the student is observed loosely from the ground but is mostly alone, although radio communication is kept in case of an emergency. Once skilled enough, the student takes a written test that demonstrates knowledge about some edge cases, as well as most of the rules and regulations covering gliders and their unique situation navigating interactions with other aircraft as well as their inherent challenges presented by motorless flight. After passing the written, the student is then tested by an examiner, where the student must again demonstrate knowledge through an oral test, similar to the written, and then demonstrate "mastery and knowledge of the aircraft" through demonstration flights. This is where the student gets the license and doesn't require an instructor to fly.
 
Welcome Wes. I think if you want to emulate the flying instruction with riding instruction the best way to go about that would be a radio setup such as both of you having a Sena system or something similar. That way your instructor could ride behind you and talk you through different situations. @Tourmeister might be able to comment about this as he did something similar with his kids as he was teaching them how to ride.

I'm the guy that jumped into the pool after reading about how to swim. I bought the bike and had a friend ride it to his house. I then practiced around the neighborhood for about 15 minutes and then we both hit the main roads. I survived. But that was me. I'm not saying that was the safest way to do things but I was a kid... young and dumb... I left riding for about 25 years and when I got back into it I did take the MSF class that time around. And then after that I did ride around my neighborhood for a while before finally venturing out on more active roads.

Same thing once I started carrying my wife as a passenger; we spent a lot of time in the neighborhood so that I could get accustomed to her extra weight when stopping, teaching her how to lean in corners, etc.
 
There's couple current MSF rider-coaches on here that might chime in. I was one for a year about 12 years ago so I won't say anything more than this regarding getting out onto the road: You need to have confidence in your decisions and actions on the road. If you are too timid in your decision making, you will be a danger to yourself. You'll be like the indecisive squirrels that are flat on the road. Decide and commit. Be confident. Usually, in order to be confident, one needs to be fairly good at the doing part so they're not thinking about the doing part when they should be paying attention to their surroundings.

You say you just got your M endorsement so that tells me you took the class and passed the tests. So, until you get the bike and whenever you have a free moment to think about it, sit on a stool or something so you will be upright and pretend you're riding the bike, working the clutch and shifter and throttle then working the front and rear brakes. Pretend you're running through the gears. Do this to try to get some muscle memory for the actions you'll be performing. Then you can get out on an empty country road and instead of just cruising along, if the road is empty, practice your starting and stopping and shifting and braking in the safety of having no one around you. You gotta get used to the doing part before you can be truly confident.

Aside from that, here's a piece of advice: "When at red lights or stop signs, don't let the bunghole waiting behind you intimidate and bully you into pulling out until YOU are darn good and ready." The deadliest mistake you can make is pulling away from a light or stop sign at an intersection before you are absolutely sure it is clear and safe to do so. If the putz behind you has to wait another 5 seconds, so be it.

Every day on my commute, there's one or two or more vehicles blowing the redlight at each intersection trying to get through before I get the green light. Today It was an 18 wheeler with a 60,000# Caterpillar excavator on its trailer. I knew there was no way it was going to come to a stop in time and it would just keep barreling through. And it did. Waited about 10 seconds for that to be over. I honestly could have cleared the truck easily but the pickup behind me would have gotten t-boned like a freight train and car stuck on the tracks.
 
Texas T said:
I left riding for about 25 years and when I got back into it I did take the MSF class that time around.
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About my exact timeline and process. Even with experience sine 10yo, the MSF course was the thing to do.

With all the dirt riding I did and some AMA MX fun, I could NOT keep 2 fingers off clutch and brake. They tried to correct me, but then let it go, knowing it was a long learned habit. Taking the course in an '82 Simpson helmet with my MX number and such on it helped sway them.

Since returning to the roads, I assume that everyone in a cage is a drunken, homicidal maniac that hates motorcycles and wants me dead.
 
I can't really offer specific advice, but I'll offer my experience.

I started really riding when I was 26. I'd ridden a couple friends bikes in neighborhoods, then borrowed a friend's 1979 Z50 minibike for a few months. After that, I bought my first bike, a DR650, and rode it home myself. I got my motorcycle license a couple weeks later after doing the MSF course on my DR. I pretty much just started riding in my own before getting it for dinner group rides organized on here.

I also came from an aviation background. Is had my pilots license for over 3 years when I bought my DR. I think what you learn in flight training will help you with your motorcycle riding. Be sensible, take it easy, and try to steer clear of really busy traffic until you get comfortable!
 
By far the best way is to play in the dirt untill the motorcycle and you become one before ever venturing onto the road , and then a country road till you are comfortable with traffic . Everybody on the road in the city is trying to kill you .
 
Cagiva 549 said:
By far the best way is to play in the dirt untill the motorcycle and you become one before ever venturing onto the road , and then a country road till you are comfortable with traffic . Everybody on the road in the city is trying to kill you .
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I couldn’t agree with this more. I know it might not be the easiest thing to hear but no joke, literally one day riding in the dirt will teach you more than your first 6 months on the the street when it comes to bike control.
 
If I was king, everyone would ride dirt for a year before venturing onto pavement. It teaches you how to ride a motorcycle when things go sideways. As for the traffic out there...still scares the wits outa me. As has already been mentioned... to half of them you're invisible. To the other half just know they're all out to run you down. Head on a pivot and one finger on the clutch, the other covering the brake.
 
_RG_ said:
If I was king, everyone would ride dirt for a year before venturing onto pavement. It teaches you how to ride a motorcycle when things go sideways. As for the traffic out there...still scares the wits outa me. As has already been mentioned... to half of them you're invisible. To the other half just know they're all out to run you down. Head on a pivot and one finger on the clutch, the other covering the brake.
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If I were King, every driver works start on a motorcycle for at least a year before getting to drive a car, you'd have to pass a driving test in each vehicle size class you'd like to drive, and automatic transmissions would be banned.

That pipe dream aside, I have pretty good luck with drivers in Houston. I've never had any that were truly out to get me. Some are ignorant, some are very courteous and aware, most are somewhere in the middle. That said, I'm not complacent about them. The consequences are too high for that!

To add to my earlier comment, I think the SV650 is a fine bike to start with. Small enough to start with, but big enough to not be needing replacement quickly as you grow as a rider.
 
The analogy to pilot licensing doesn’t work for motos because you can’t have the instructor take over the controls.

Start by riding on quiet residential streets on weekend mornings.
Less cars, less distraction.

Take your car and scout a route. Look for things that are a hazard to motos. Loose gravel, big diesel/oil stains. Two-way stop intersections without a clear view of the cross street are a hazard to anyone.
Find a route to go from home base to an empty parking lot.
Practice stops and starts including starting into a right hand turn.
If you have enough space, practice some upshifts and downshifts.

The more you manipulate the controls, the more they will become second nature.
 
Back when I started riding 25yrs ago, I was not your typical new cycle rider. No one in my family rode. I didn't have dirt experience and still don't. I just knew I wanted a motorcycle because my folks never let me have one as a teen. My first bike was a 82 K75 (not a proper first bike). In fact, it was delivered to me before I took the MSF class. After I took the class, I took it nice and slow. I also bought, read, and studied a book on cycle riding. I started off on less busy roads in S. Arlington (not easy when Cooper St. was a block away) before riding on busier streets and then the freeway. I have always had a determined attitude so not too long after, I rode by myself and took back roads as much as possible to visit my sister in Austin who lived off Mopac. I think I found TWT when I got my second bike. I sold the K75 for a Sprint ST (again probably not the right bike to get but it worked for me)

The best thing I can say is everyone is different and what works for one person, doesn't work for another. My latest purchase is a 17 SV650 so You did right on that. Once you are done with the MSF class, maybe find an experienced riding buddy and ride often, as in every day or every other day. Choose a location close by and then go a little farther each time. Repitition of proper riding skills will make you more comfortable faster. While you are doing that, read one of several books available on improving ride skills. Ask some of us to borrow said books. Watch countless YT videos on proper riding skills (preferably before and after a ride). I'm not discounting dirt riding but the reality is many folks don't have the money or time for a dirt bike and a place to ride. I am sure some dirt riders near you would probably be more than willing to assist you.
 
As many have said, dirt is a great training ground; in my day, practically everybody started on dirt bikes. You tend to fall a lot riding around trails and pastures, but dirt is much more forgiving than concrete. Plus, you're nearly always riding at much lower speeds - also more forgiving. So you can develop a lot of technical skills, and get a lot of rut-ruh experiences of falls and near falls without the pain and terror of hitting pavement or a Buick.

Remember one thing about dirt riding, though. While it's a great teacher for handling skills, it teaches you basically nothing about the dangers of intersections, lane-changes, etc. So don't assume your skills of chasing a bull through a pasture will protect you from an intersection collision. Two different worlds.

I think my one piece of street advice comes not from when I first started riding many decades ago, but from when I started riding again after a 30-year lapse. My advice is this - be very intentional about going slower than you think you're capable of. Don't be afraid - be cautious. Acceleration is addictive, and curvy backroads are alluring. But take your time and let your skills build up, which they well - don't hurry the process. Two important things to remember about motorcycle accidents: (1) a large percentage of accidents and deaths occur among riders who have been at it for less than a year, and (2) many of those accidents among inexperienced riders occur when someone lets his throttle hand write a check that his riding skills can't cash. So be very intentional about not hurrying yourself or the process.

One other thing that helps throughout your riding career. You will scare yourself from time time, and you will have a near miss here & there. Learn from those. Analyze what happened, what went wrong, what the warning signs were, and figure out what skill you need to improve or what habit you need to incorporate, in order to avoid a repeat performance. Even if your brain tries to tell you it was someone else's fault, spend some time analyzing the situation so that you'll know how not to be there again.
 
Yamaha Champions Riding School has a couple riding courses under their ChampU umbrella. One is geared for new riders who just got their license. While I haven’t used it, I did complete their original ChampU course, and it was an amazing resource that really taught me a lot.
 
Texas T said:
Welcome Wes. I think if you want to emulate the flying instruction with riding instruction the best way to go about that would be a radio setup such as both of you having a Sena system or something similar. That way your instructor could ride behind you and talk you through different situations. @Tourmeister might be able to comment about this as he did something similar with his kids as he was teaching them how to ride.

I'm the guy that jumped into the pool after reading about how to swim. I bought the bike and had a friend ride it to his house. I then practiced around the neighborhood for about 15 minutes and then we both hit the main roads. I survived. But that was me. I'm not saying that was the safest way to do things but I was a kid... young and dumb... I left riding for about 25 years and when I got back into it I did take the MSF class that time around. And then after that I did ride around my neighborhood for a while before finally venturing out on more active roads.

Same thing once I started carrying my wife as a passenger; we spent a lot of time in the neighborhood so that I could get accustomed to her extra weight when stopping, teaching her how to lean in corners, etc.
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Don't let her hear you say "extra weight"... jus sayin...
 
My brother just started riding a year ago at age 56. He loves it. He started out watching every motorcycle youtube video there is, studying training techniques and practicing. MSF classes are good, practicing in empty parking lots is good, getting a good feel for the bike on long straight empty roads is good... it's all experience and that is how you build confidence. Important... ride your own ride. Don't try to keep up with other people. proceed at a safe level for you. There will be times a buddy can help push you out of a comfort zone, that is how we improve, but don't feel like you have to get there in any specified timeframe. This is supposed to be fun, enjoy the process.
 
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Ride like you're invisible, look at every car and see what they can do to kill you & prepare for that. When you're in traffic at a light I try to stop one side or the other of the car in front of me & keep my eye on the rearview mirror so you don't end up being the middle of a sandwich. Everybody is texting, I swear I've stopped at a light & looked around & every car had the driver jacking with their phone. The advice about dirt is a good one, I never rode dirt but would love to learn, but I need to get a smaller bike for that.
 
I think renting a bike is a great idea, as long as you don't have to deal with a lot of traffic to get it. Perhaps someone else could ride it to an area quiet enough to practice. For complete newbies, IMO a small offroad bike with a fairly open area to ride is the place to start. It helps get the coordination of controls down, as well as feeling the physics of riding, including more of the tires moving around on dirt/grass vs pavement (so that when it happens on the street you don't sh*t yourself).

The riding part is actually the easy part. It's learning all the things that keep you alive on the the streets - all the "emergency protocol" that pilots have to know instinctively - you don't have time to think, just do. I have taught a few new riders, 18~20 year olds. They get the "riding" down pretty quickly, but all the mental work: scanning, anticipation, decisions in traffic, etc wears 'em out fast.

I hear you about being safe, but...sometimes you need to be a bit aggressive to get out of a situation. Hitting the brakes is not always the right answer, sometimes the throttle is.

Having a good experienced rider with you is perfect, particularly with comms. You may have to seek out groups/clubs and try to recruit a teacher. The more time you put into preparation - articles, books, videos - and assimilating that info, the better. Most of the time common sense is a pretty good filter. Seat time - the more the better. Gradually put yourself into higher traffic areas.

I've been street riding for ~50 yrs and ~800k mi. I've had one crash that involved another vehicle (47 yrs ago). I can't count the # of high potential situations that have occurred that I prevented. Making yourself and the bike more visible helps a lot - it's not 100%, but it helps. I wear a hi-vis jacket and helmet, and all of my bikes have driving lights spread way from the headlight, and flashing or strobing brake lights. It's not only what's in front of you that can kill you, but what's behind as well.

The #1 rule when on a bike is assume you are invisible to all other vehicles, and #2 assume other vehicles will NOT obey traffic laws. Just because they are supposed to stop at a stop sign or light means nothing when they run over you.

Develop the habit of scanning for any and all threats - this includes behind you. Riders must be much more aware of everything and vigilant to survive vs a cage driver. Practice the mental aspects when driving a cage - it will make you a much better driver. Critters, sizeable ones anyway, dogs, deer, armadillos, are threats, Small rodents you just run over if they go the wrong way.

Dress for the slide not the ride. ATTGATT - all the gear all the time. In TX you will need mesh armored gear. If it's to hot to wear the gear, it's too hot to ride.

The list goes on and on. Good luck in your riding pursuit.
 
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There are a bunch of people on this forum who started riding dirt and see the world through that lens. But it's not the only way.

I was in largely the same boat as you. What I did, which I think can probably work for you, is just started riding in the neighborhood where I could stay under 40 mph and had years of experience with the typical traffic and drivers' habits. Then as I gained experience and confidence, I moved on to adjacent neighborhoods but still kept to residential streets. Probably rode like this nearly every day for a couple of months before I ventured onto a highway. I even found a residential and county roads route to commute to work.

As a side benefit, I wound up developing a knack for finding more interesting routes and became much more familiar with the low speed road infrastructure in my area, which was surprising considering I had been a cyclist even commuting to work most of the time for nearly 20 years at this time and I had literally grown up and always lived in this area. This really pays off now that I ride scooters a lot.
 
Tigerkf said:
A newer bike with more technology will definitely make things safer than an old one.
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I don't agree with this (depending on how old "old" is). My thought is you mean all of the rider nanny aids available, vs better brakes, tires, and chassis/suspension. The tech might actually have the opposite effect. Perhaps you've heard of what I call the inverse rule - the more protected you think you are, the worse your judgement gets, ie not as vigilant at practicing safety maneuvers, riding faster (especially on wet roads), poorer throttle control, etc. Another way of saying it may be a false sense of security.

The primary new tech that can affect safety are ABS and TCS. IMU wheelie control can also be included. The purpose of ABS & TCS is to address loss of traction. I've done ~50k mi on my bike with all 3 (1290 SDR). ABS and TCS have yet to intervene (except when I test them on gravel). Wheelie control does intervene, but only when the hammer is really laid down. It's certainly good to have on a light, 150hp+ bike, but there aren't many of those around. The other bikes I have ridden during the other ~750k mi didn't (or don't for my other 3 current bikes) had/have none of the above. No incidents on those bikes that any of the tech would have prevented. I also have to say my truck has all kinds of tcs, abs, anti flip, all kinds of crap, and in 250k mi of driving it, the only time any of it has intervened is on snow and ice.

I'm an aggressive rider. I've been to a track school and have many track hours. I also have common sense, ie when is traction going to be low and need to be managed. The actions to take when the tech would intervene, are actions any rider should practice (off road riding really helps with this). Other than the "inverse rule", the tech isn't bad, but it's sure expensive to buy and maintain when it breaks. Be very careful of believing the tech can save you from yourself.
 
OSU55 said:
The actions to take when the tech would intervene, are actions any rider should practice (off road riding really helps with this). Other than the "inverse rule", the tech isn't bad, but it's sure expensive to buy and maintain when it breaks. Be very careful of believing the tech can save you from yourself.
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It's not a belief that the tech can save you from yourself. Certain tech can add a measure of safety that's not possible to attain without it. ABS and probably traction control are such technologies.

In fact I think my wreck a few years ago might have been prevented if I had ABS. Certainly locking the front tire under hard braking did not help the situation.

There is simply no amount of skill that you can develop which will make ABS irrelevant. Just check out F1 drivers. These are the best drivers in the world, they have extraordinarily high tech cars with enough traction to allow them to pull more than 5G in a corner and get 1000 hp to the ground in a 1750 lb car. In real time they can control the front/rear brake bias and engine braking plus differential behavior, and they have a team connected to the car by wireless network who are in real time analyzing the data and doing minute adjustments to the car's behavior constantly. But they routinely lock the tires under braking because they don't have ABS, and they very often spin out and even spin the car and cause crashes that could be prevented by routine everyday automotive traction control. As good as these drivers are, they would be safer and faster with traction control and ABS.

Anecdotally, my Jeep has ABS and traction control that can be disabled manually. Both are activated relatively routinely in my case, ABS less often than the traction control. Without the traction control, it would simply not be possible to make use of many of the benefits of the Jeep's simple, antiquated suspension. Like you said, in ice and snow, it is possible to get where you need to go, where it wouldn't be possible without at least taking an extraordinary risk of being stranded or crashing without the traction control. In particular the brake-lock differential is a complete game changer, and I should note this is completely enabled by the ABS system.

Anyway, I know riding on gravel is a real nail-biter for me on any of my bikes, and of course I don't have any riding aids at all. It's because 99.999% of the time I am riding on pavement, so it'd be foolish to sacrifice street performance and traction (safety) to equip the bikes with the type of tires and suspension settings that would make them work better in gravel, and also I have extremely limited opportunities to gain experience on gravel. So that half mile of gravel road I have to hit at in the midst of a 200 mile road ride is 10x as dangerous as the rest of the ride, and traction control and active suspension tech could alleviate much of that risk without forcing me to reduce the safety margin on the other 199.5 miles of the ride.

Anyway back to my original point to the OP, this does relate. I would like to suggest another option rather than getting an SV650. Maybe for the same budget you could get a newer, smaller displacement motorcycle, with ABS standard. You don't need the 65+ hp of a SV650, you can do everything you need with 40ish+ hp of a 400-500cc class bike (I have two of them myself). So if you can get something more modern in the same budget, I'd go for it. A KTM 390RC or Duke, or a Ninja 300, 400, even a CB500, all could be had used for similar money to an '08 SV650 but will have ABS and a decade newer parts head to toe. There is a radical difference in reliability IME between the newer and older motorcycles, even if they are otherwise roughly the same.
 
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Whatever bike you buy, just start out slow and in an area that isn't crowded. It isn't as hard as flying an airplane, so I have no doubt that you will pick it up quickly. Bonus points if you can find someone that is a really good teacher and can observe you riding and give you feedback. I literally just spent a large part of my day yesterday teaching a new rider clutch control and front to back balance drills on a dirt bike. Finding someone that can give you good and constructive feedback after observing what you are doing will do nothing but speed up the process. Needed, no, but helpful, yes.
 
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