Route mapping software

[Blue Flash]

After years of things working great, suddenly I'm considering going back to paper maps.

I have two Garmin zumo 396 devices. If I create a route in basecamp, I can send to the device. But it suddenly refuses to import. Same issue for both devices.

I started having similar issues a year ago, and Garmin support was no help. I figured out a way to get it to work most of the time, but that stopped working a couple of weeks ago.

Is there any PC software that works with the zumo 396?

I'm not interested in phone apps... I want the phone available with plenty of battery if bad things happen.

I am thinking paper maps would be less aggravating than Garmin.

 

[Mugochap]

After years of things working great, suddenly I'm considering going back to paper maps.

I have two Garmin zumo 396 devices. If I create a route in basecamp, I can send to the device. But it suddenly refuses to import. Same issue for both devices.

I started having similar issues a year ago, and Garmin support was no help. I figured out a way to get it to work most of the time, but that stopped working a couple of weeks ago.

Is there any PC software that works with the zumo 396?

I'm not interested in phone apps... I want the phone available with plenty of battery if bad things happen.

I am thinking paper maps would be less aggravating than Garmin.

Could it just be a firmware issue that needs updating? I’m very familiar with Garmin devices for bicycling, but not motorcycling and if you don’t do the firmware updates then issues can abound.

I’ve been using MapMyRide to create routes and then just printing out the turn by turn directions (with mileage markers) and put it in my tank bag which has a clear plastic window on top perfect for maps and the likes.

 

[William Wolfen]

Have you tried exporting the routes to a gpx file and copying that over to import from?

 

[Blue Flash]

Could it just be a firmware issue that needs updating? I’m very familiar with Garmin devices for bicycling, but not motorcycling and if you don’t do the firmware updates then issues can abound.

I’ve been using MapMyRide to create routes and then just printing out the turn by turn directions (with mileage markers) and put it in my tank bag which has a clear plastic window on top perfect for maps and the likes.

Not a firmware issue. Just as I had last year, all of the available updates are installed. In fact, last year when I first started having the problem, I think it was soon after a basecamp update, but I can't say for sure. I don't have a full install file to go back to a prior version to verify. However, I contacted Garmin, and for 2 months they told me I had too many via / way points. I sent one of the reps a Basecamp file, and he couldn't get it to load. It had less than the supposed maximum number of waypoints and via points. Regardless, if you exceed the maximum, it splits the route into two routes. That's how it had worked for me for several years prior. He didn't have any answer other than ESP (Error some place). Then, it was because my SD Card was bad... but the problem didn't change with the SD card removed.

As a last ditch effort somewhere in the middle of all this, I just ponied up for another GPS unit. $350 more wasted, because the new one had the same issues. I did notice that, if I tell it to send the route to the device and it doesn't give me a choice for the destination (unit or SD Card), it will fail 100% of the time. For about a year, I made sure both destinations came up, and if the SD Card was missing in the choices, I restarted Basecamp and then it would come up, and I could get them to import after transfer. That stop-gap doesn't work anymore.

One thing I learned was that Garmin Support is more like Garmin Denial. Absolutely everything is user error, even if they can't make one work.

I have reset what seems like hundreds of times, because the failed transfer files can't be deleted without a full reset.

Where I live, I run a lot of nice curvy roads, and occasionally, they have road signs at intersections. I've only lived here for 2 years now, so there are a lot of roads to explore. Paper maps would be a real pain, and I don't want my expensive cell phone on the bars, burning up battery in case I need to make an emergency call. Plus, without internet service, most apps won't work for me on the phone. I pretty much live out in the sticks now.

I am hoping that the issue is Basecamp, but if I replace it, I need a software package that I can create very custom routes to get to the roads I want to ride, and I need to be able to transfer them to the GPS unit and have them work. Garmin doesn't seem to have such a thing for my GPS (anymore), and after the lousy customer service, I don't want to give them another dime. Unfortunately, that likely means going back to paper maps again.

 

[Blue Flash]

Have you tried exporting the routes to a gpx file and copying that over to import from?

What method would you use to transfer the file to the device? All I have now is basecamp, and that file transfer method is what isn't working. Is there another program I need in order to make that work?

Edit... OK, I wasn't thinking right. That was a good thought, so I tried that (had not before). Yes, I tried exporting and just copying the gpx file into the Garmin\gpx folder on the device. It still needs to "import" as a route. It saw the file there, but it still failed in the "import".

 

[blupupher]

I played with Tyre for a bit, seems pretty similar to basecamp in function.

Have you tried uninstalling basecamp and then reinstalling?
Tried it on another computer?
Tried another cable?

I have not had any issues with my 396, but only imported .gpx files of stops, not actual routes. It has been about a year since I did routes, but had no problems then either.

Are you able to save it onto an SD card then put it in the GPS and access it that way?

Also, how large are the files, and how much free space do you have on the GPS?

 

[Blue Flash]

I played with Tyre for a bit, seems pretty similar to basecamp in function.

Have you tried uninstalling basecamp and then reinstalling?
Tried it on another computer?
Tried another cable?

I have not had any issues with my 396, but only imported .gpx files of stops, not actual routes. It has been about a year since I did routes, but had no problems then either.

Are you able to save it onto an SD card then put it in the GPS and access it that way?

Also, how large are the files, and how much free space do you have on the GPS?

I didn't like Tyre when I had a TomTom, but that may be an option.
The problem started with my old computer. I bought a new computer late last year and downloaded a fresh copy of BaseCamp. Same issue with both computers
I have two units and two cables. Swapping units and cables doesn't make a difference.

I know I had the first 396 for over 5 years before I started having problems. It seemed to start suddenly, and was no different when I bought the new GPS.

I exported my route to .gpx and then copied it into the Garmin\gpx folder, and it showed up, but then failed on import from there, just like the others. I still think the issue is Basecamp, even if Garmin insists it's perfect.

The particular route that I am beating on (although there are many) are dramatically smaller than some of the routes I have create before. No more than 50 total waypoints and via points. I just unplugged the device, but I think it had over 6 GB Free. After resets and wiping all of my personal data, there is plenty of space.

I have never been able to get any routes to load from the SD Card, so the SD Card became just music files.

Maybe I can try Tyre again.

Thanks!

 

[blupupher]

Will it load any .gpx file?

You can look at the Tour of Texas thread and download my .gpx file of the stops. There are no routes in it, just the 53 stops.
I made it on basecamp and it loads just fine into my 396 (and BMW Moto V and Xumo XT).

edit: added it below.

also, can you save the file to your computer and upload it here?
If nobody can get it to load on theirs, maybe it is a basecamp issue.
If you load it up, I will see if it imports into my basecamp and then onto my 396.

GPX viewer

 

[Blue Flash]

Will it load any .gpx file?

You can look at the Tour of Texas thread and download my .gpx file of the stops. There are no routes in it, just the 53 stops.
I made it on basecamp and it loads just fine into my 396 (and BMW Moto V and Xumo XT).

edit: added it below.

also, can you save the file to your computer and upload it here?
If nobody can get it to load on theirs, maybe it is a basecamp issue.
If you load it up, I will see if it imports into my basecamp and then onto my 396.

GPX viewer

Here is the gpx file

GPX viewer

 

[Blue Flash]

Only the physical "waypoints" show on the viewer, but here is the complete route snip from the BaseCamp Screen (with additional via points included).

 

[Blue Flash]

It takes awhile to get the GPS connected. I reconnected, verified I have 7.6 GB free internal memory, and copied your gpx file to the Garmin\gpx folder. I reconnected the GPS, and it's not showing up at all, even in the files to import.

Double checking the internal Garmin\gpx folder, and it's there, but the device won't recognize it. That is on the newest GPS. I didn't try it on the old one.

 

[Blue Flash]

Another thing that I notice is that, about the time that the problems started, it started telling me "cannot unlock map"... but the map is there, and it was working the entire time. Yes, I have unlimited maps, and the latest are installed. Once in awhile when I upload maps, I forget to have it upload to the PC as well, so when I transfer to the device, it recalculates to the device maps, so they are there and working apparently. After uploading to the PC, that issue goes away, but I still get the alert on the device on every start up. Happens on both devices.

Garmin express is set up to automatically check for updates when I connect, and both devices are up to date. If I see an update available, I update, so I keep them current.

I found a BaseCamp Version 4.7.1 and unistalled the newer version, and installed the 4.7.1, and apparently the problem was still there with that version, if it's BaseCamp. It could be a computer, but since I replaced the computer, the problem remains after a fresh download and install.

What gets me is that I have 2 GPS units, purchased over 5 years apart, and both are showing the same issues. That's why I was suspecting BaseCamp. However, I would expect your file to work...

 

[Blue Flash]

My mistake. Your file was only points. I see your points on the device now.

 

[blupupher]

Downloaded it, imported to Basecamp with no issues, route shows up fine. Loaded it into my 396 with no issues at all.

 

[blupupher]

Here is a short route I just threw together, see if it will load

GPX viewer

 

[Simmons1]

Something goofy is going on. I imported the Lebanon file above into Basecamp, then sent it to my XT. It would not import and work correctly.

Then, I did the same thing with the test route above and it works perfect in my XT.

 

[TOE JAM]

“Where I live, I run a lot of nice curvy roads, and occasionally, they have road signs at intersections. I've only lived here for 2 years now, so there are a lot of roads to explore.”

Obviously you want your gps to work correctly, but why would you want to create tracks just to get out and explore? You certainly can’t download routes onto a paper map. Personally I only use routes and tracks on organized rides. If I’m out exploring, I use the gps like a map for general orientation. If I see a curvey road on the screen I take it!

 

[Blue Flash]

I dropped the gpx dirrectly into the device and got it to import.
Then I imported the gpx into BaseCamp and renamed it slightly, transferred to the device, and it imported.

Tried the Lebanon Loop route that you got to work, and it failed again here.

 

[Blue Flash]

“Where I live, I run a lot of nice curvy roads, and occasionally, they have road signs at intersections. I've only lived here for 2 years now, so there are a lot of roads to explore.”

Obviously you want your gps to work correctly, but why would you want to create tracks just to get out and explore? You certainly can’t download routes onto a paper map. Personally I only use routes and tracks on organized rides. If I’m out exploring, I use the gps like a map for general orientation. If I see a curvey road on the screen I take it!

I use the Curvature maps to identify the best curves. They provide me a set of curves to link together for a great ride. Then I go to places where I would be totally lost, and I can find them. The best curves aren't obvious from intersections. I'm exploring over about 1/2 the state of Kentucky... and the curvature maps have shown me some great roads! If I'm going to ride 8 hours in a day, I want to get the best curves out there, and using this method, I can be in great curves for 75% of the day.

Here's an example of what I'm working with in the vicinity of home. Red and Fuchsia are the curviest roads. The Fuchsia roads get more concentrated as I go east - those are the longer routes. I pick a handfull of roads that I want to link together and create a route

 

[Blue Flash]

OK. I recreated the Lebanon route again.... totally from scratch, and didn't use any of the prior waypoints except "home".
For this route, I only had 2 "via points" and used hard waypoints for nearly everything.

Failed to import again.

I've been at this since 10 am. I think I'm giving it up for the night. This is happening so often, I'm just about at my wit's end.

Thanks for the help, guys!

 

[blupupher]

Well something is going on, because I deleted the lebanon file from my computer and Garmin, but when I went to try to reload it, it will open in Basecamp, acts like it is sending to my GPS, shows up on it to import, but then says can't import.

 

[blupupher]

It now shows I have 3 trips saved on my trip planner, but when I go to it, there are none. I added one, it shows up showing I have 3.
It loads fine onto my BMW Moto 5, and deletes fine as well.
Have not tried it on my XT

 

[FitzPA]

I gave up with Garmin years ago - it failed on me in the middle of nowhere and I literally had
to use the sun and landscape to get me out (somewhere South of Tuscon);

I know you said you don't want a phone app BUT......

I have a 7" Rugged tablet (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08P176F3F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
loaded with several GPX viewers( Osmand is my #1); I have a 2nd copy of the app on my phone as a back up..

I used a similar set up for 15? years and neither the tablet not the sw had ever let me down. I use the hw/sw offline so I'm
not dependant on a satalite signal. This worked in Europe with no issues.

Hope this is useful

 

[Blue Flash]

It now shows I have 3 trips saved on my trip planner, but when I go to it, there are none. I added one, it shows up showing I have 3.
It loads fine onto my BMW Moto 5, and deletes fine as well.
Have not tried it on my XT

That's the issue! If it can't be imported then it can't be used, and it only burns up space on the GPS. If you tell it to go to the trip planner and don't see it there, you can select the wrench icon for files that are available for import.

I argued with Garmin Support literally every day for 2 months on this issue, and that was before it got worse. Only one guy actually seemed interested in trying to figure out the problem. I sent him one of the problem routes, and he had the same results. He didn't know what was causing it, but confirmed the issue, and didn't see anything in my route that he thought could be causing the issue. I never heard from him again. I hope he didn't get fired for admitting something was wrong.

You can try to import the files that are there, but they will fail. Unfortunately, the ONLY option from that import page is to import. If the import works well, then it comes out of that bin.

EDIT: I think it's old-timer's disease or CRS... The files are in the gpx folder... duh!!! Have to connect to the pc and delete from the folder. that's all. But the "dead" files can't be deleted directly from the device as far as I can tell. There is no delete option from the folder with files ready to be imported. No Master Reset needed.

However, if you need to do a Master Reset to try and correct any other issues, here's how to do it

Master Reset,

• Do a backup of your files in BaseCamp. You may also want to make notes for all of your personal settings. After reset, all of that data will be gone.
• Turn the GPS off by holding the power button until you see the option to Turn Off (a quick press of the power button only takes it to Standby mode).
• hold your finger on the bottom right-hand corner (and don't release)
• Hold the power button down until you see "Garmin" on the screen. keep holding down the bottom right corner.
• It will take 30 seconds or so, but eventually, it will ask if you want to delete all personal data.
• Only then do you release the bottom right corner.
• It will take a bit for it to complete, but when it finally finishes the process, it will aske what country you're in
• Then you have to go through all the settings and apps menus to set up the unit like you had it.
• Restore your data from BaseCamp and you should be back to normal.

There is also a way to reset the unit completely back to factory settings. I don't remember exactly how to do that, but I may be searching for that information soon as well.

I downloaded another fresh copy of BaseCamp. Not that I expect it to fix it, since my last download was Christmas time... but I don't know what else to do.

I also went to the Tyre site. I remember when they went to requiring the Google Key to use Tyre, and I went to BaseCamp. it looks like it can be used with OpenStreetMaps now, so that sounds better. I'll have to try Tyre with the problem route and see what happens.

 

[Blue Flash]

I gave up with Garmin years ago - it failed on me in the middle of nowhere and I literally had
to use the sun and landscape to get me out (somewhere South of Tuscon);

I know you said you don't want a phone app BUT......

I have a 7" Rugged tablet (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08P176F3F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
loaded with several GPX viewers( Osmand is my #1); I have a 2nd copy of the app on my phone as a back up..

I used a similar set up for 15? years and neither the tablet not the sw had ever let me down. I use the hw/sw offline so I'm
not dependant on a satalite signal. This worked in Europe with no issues.

Hope this is useful

That option may be the eventual way to go. My disdain for Garmin has really grown since this all started, and it just looks like if I give them more money, I just have to pray that I will never need technical support, because it's not there. With TomTom, if you keep a unit past it's manufacturing run and the model is replaced, then they also cut off accessories. I needed a new mount for a TomTom Rider that was superseded with a new model about a year prior to my mount failing. The only way to get a new mount was to buy the new unit and all the parts (and potentially, spares) up front. That soured me on TomTom... so they seem to be the only providers out there... Not a good situation.