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Big Bend - Trans-Peco pipeline proposal?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mr-roboto
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I wonder if there's any similarity between the transmission lines required for those solar and wind projects and pipelines
 
Well once done the only thing that shows a pipe line is there is the markers while the power line is always there.

The upgraded power lines would have been there anyways as new lines were part of the mega battery project.
The upgraded lines were probably a deciding factor for putting the solar farm out there.
 
Not likely from a transmission pipeline. By the way, you might already know this.... Studies on the internet can be found supporting any pre-supposed position, especially where that position is basically against the energy industry.

Read the details on that "Harvard study" and notice that the study in the story was for urban gas leaks in Los Angeles while the Harvard connection is a paper detailing gas leaks from Boston city gas infrastructure. A gas distribution infrastructure with many components more than 100 years old has doesn't make direct correlation to a brand new transport pipeline. My two cents worth anyway.

The story quantifies the gas leaks in L.A. by saying the lost gas is worth $90 million a year. Begs two questions... 1) How many cubic feet of gas is that? and 2) Wouldn't the city of L.A. have incentive to fix that so they would not lose that revenue?

The Boston paper shows a leak rate of between 2.1% and 3.1%... but fails to quantify that as a percentage of a concrete number. Pretty ambiguous findings open to interpretation, or mis-interprtation as the case may be.
 
ed29 said:
and 2) Wouldn't the city of L.A. have incentive to fix that so they would not lose that revenue?

The Boston paper shows a leak rate of between 2.1% and 3.1%... but fails to quantify that as a percentage of a concrete number.
Click to expand...

The EPA stated that of the methane released by the natural gas industry, 37 percent comes from "Transmission/Storage", 24 percent comes from "Distribution" and 27% during production. The EPA noted that during summer peak times, emissions were estimated to the highest.

Regarding leakage, the industry has pervasive leakage issues, especially on the old legacy cast-iron pipeline but the price of gas being so low, they do not have an inventive to fix such problems. In many cases, natural gas is burned off or flared at the well at many locations last time I road by eastern New Mexico.

The numbers do vary regarding NAT gas leakage based on which report you view online, and some utilities are consistently higher than others in their percentages of lost and unaccounted for gas. I would think the material used for the pipeline such as cast iron, unprotected and protected steel, and plastic might make a difference in the leakage rates too.

But the leakage number is quite high in relative terms no doubt and further legislation will be need to bring the numbers to a lower average. In this sense, the EPA serves an important role. In general, most large scale industries do a poor job at self-regulation. The Libertarian argument collapses here again.

Wow, the Porter Ranch leak that went unchecked for many months was a nightmare. The politics of the actual storage facility is interesting...

RB
 
Probably not related but 40 years ago I hunted on border property where "gas", I assume methane, naturally leaked from underground. No drilling, not pipelines, just natural from deep underground. You could see where adjacent fields were green but not much would grow above the methane. It was on the border, east of Laredo.
 
I'm done trying to reason. Anti energy people simply won't listen to facts, answer valid questions, or stay on the topic at hand.

Without the emotions of fear and anger the anti pipeline crowd would cease to exist in Big Bend.
 
SL350 said:
Probably not related but 40 years ago I hunted on border property where "gas", I assume methane, naturally leaked from underground. No drilling, not pipelines, just natural from deep underground. You could see where adjacent fields were green but not much would grow above the methane. It was on the border, east of Laredo.
Click to expand...

Correct, there is a percentage of methane leaks from natural sources such as wetlands, termites, decomposing organic materials in ocean and fresh water, and methane hydrate. As more of the glaciers recede from global warming, the levels coming from the permafrost and frozen methane deposits will most probably increase.

Enteric fermentation is another phrase to describe bovine excrement/rumination etc. Fossil fuels and coal combine to create about 40 percent of the world's methane sources.

RB

gases-methane.png
 
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Hot off the WSJ press...there is a MASSIVE new discovery just north of the Fort Davis mountains just revealed by Apache Petroleum. This new acreage could rival the Bakken fields in North Dakota. Balmorhea State Park is right in the middle of it. Need fracing water? Gulp, gulp the spring pool reservoir...

Apache Has High Hopes for New Oil-Field Discovery in Texas

Energy firm says overlooked ‘Alpine High’ area potentially holds billions of barrels of oil
 
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not to mention the danger of fracing changing the aquifer and poising the water source for the springs. And then there is also light pollution from the flair-offs killing the night skies which I understand is already a problem.
 
Couple of things. The pipeline construction has been going on for a couple of months. They are past the halfway point and the press is just now noticing the work. Gives me the idea that it just might not be as disruptive as the antis were making it sound.

Second thing, light pollution from flair offs is hardly a problem in west Texas. Most oil wells here capture and concentrate the gas that used to be burned off. They build a network of smaller pipes from the oil wells to get both the oil and the natural gas to the distribution point.
 
Desert Skies said:
not to mention the danger of fracing changing the aquifer and poising the water source for the springs. And then there is also light pollution from the flair-offs killing the night skies which I understand is already a problem.
Click to expand...

Even without flairs, the lighting on the production facilities are bad enough. They have already treatened one of the world's top observatories. Fortunately the Rail Road commission has been working to help control the problem. The field Apache is developing will be within the 57 mile radius of the observatory. My place is down the road from an oil transfer plant where the product is cleaned before it is sent down the pipeline and at night, when the flairs are going, it is bright enough to work on the bikes in the driveway. It's ironic that people retire to rural Texas for the natural beauty of the place, only to live in the shadow (or in this case, bright lights) of industry.
 
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Yes, every pipeline has compressor station and dehydrating equipment and "yards".

I never knew what we had until it was lost. Now we only see the stars as any city resident.
 
People don't like oil and gas but won't give up there oil burning vehicles and there gas fired electricity. [emoji15] But don't worry it is going to be better January one [emoji122] [emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji122]

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures!
 
Whole lot of discussion over a subject YOU can't do squat about. ETP is the same group building the Dakota Access Pipeline that has the entire SIOUX NATION coming together to pray in the Dakotas. Even though the KEYSTONE line was shot down, that really didn't matter. The 'interstate vs intrastate' thing? The Dakota line will transfer just as much as the Keystone, and stop less than 200 miles from the Canadian border, from which the line can easily bee extended to the Tar Sands.
|While all the furor over the Keystone was playing out, ETP was amassing the funds from darn near every bank on Wall Street to put their line together, snuck it under the radar, and had the cat in the bag before it hit the press.
As to what YOU can do about these things? NOT SQUAT. The big boys have every politician, bureaucrat, and banker in the mix, and the average Joe is standing there scratching his nads while they step over him. If they need to schmooze it, they will gladly spend millions on PR.
A gasoline pipeline went through S. Austin. Radian Corp was paid $14,000,000 to "assess" the safety of the 723-mile line, as a "third-party", and after all their study, they found- "The PROBABILITY of a leak on ANY GIVEN MILE of the line was only 0.00138 "
WOW! Such a small chance! But take that tiny chance TIMES 723 miles equals 1 leak.
At the dog-and-pony show at the high school. I got the microphone demanding to ask one question. I got the crowd to shout them down, got the mic, and started to question this EQUATION. The MAYOR, now State Senator Kirk Watson, came crashing through the door with the fire marshal, my microphone was cut off, and he cleared the auditorium on the grounds that the crowd exceeded capacity. He knew where my statement was headed, he knew it would blow the project, and he was IN THE POCKET of the pipeline company, as is the entire Texas Railroad Commission.
YOU are not that big. YOU are blowing smoke. And short a return to 1776, WE are just slaves to those who have the money to OWN OUR GOVERNMENT.
What should we do?
I suggest we all meet at the next pie run.
Chicken fried steak, anyone?
 
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:shrug: Probably need to change that YOU to I. There are a lot of people affecting decisions like this everyday through their own actions and the actions of their organizations. Volunteer for the right organizations and you may get to meet them. But hey, why debunk the narrative. This quit being about motorcycles long ago. Kick it down to off topic.
 
mikes old virago said:
A gasoline pipeline went through S. Austin. Radian Corp was paid $14,000,000 to "assess" the safety of the 723-mile line, as a "third-party", and after all their study, they found- "The PROBABILITY of a leak on ANY GIVEN MILE of the line was only 0.00138% "
WOW! Such a small chance! But take that tiny chance TIMES 723 miles equals 1 leak.
Click to expand...

I'm not that good at math, but I take that equation to mean that over the entire 723 mile line their is at any given point a less than 1% overall chance that there will be a leak. Transporting by rail, or by truck is statistically far more risky I'm sure. Otherwise they would be jumping all over it.

And Mike, you certainly can do something about all of this. Quit driving, quit using petroleum based power in your home, quit using the internet that is also powered by all of that nasty stuff. Even these very servers that we are typing on are powered by that evil stuff. We are just helping all those rich people get richer. It really is that simple. If there is no market for the stuff, then there is no money to be made. But alas, no one wants to start walking again, no one wants to quit surfing the web or posting on forums. People just want it in some other back yard other than their own. Sad really.....
 
There is so much emotion clouding facts, and so much mis-information spread by the anti pipeline/anti-oil industry crowd that stirs people into angry frenzies.

The going story now is the alleged destruction of a sacred burial ground. Am I the only one puzzled as to why tribal leaders have done nothing, and made no mention of this sacred ground for over 100 years? If they knew of this sacred ground, why didn't they try to acquire rights to it and add it to their existing property? Nothing mentioned until after crews cleared the construction zone. It would be a bit difficult to prove now that it ever was a burial ground. If you do some research on Sioux burials you will find that they often used what is called 'air burial', placing the body on a scaffold to give the deceased a start towards the spirit world.

For all of the furor over the dogs, pepper spray, and clashes... Please do not fall into the emotional trap of thinking of the Sioux as victims here. They have entered private property off of their reservation, disrupted work in progress, and vandalized equipment. They have attacked the police that have the responsibility to keep the peace and to protect the property rights of the landowners. Attacking police just doesn't sit well with me.

The narrative that the company building the line is somehow ripping everyone else off with this project is a huge red herring. That is a contrived story designed to provoke anger in people not even involved or affected by the project. It works all too well. The story is a lie. Nobody, not the ranches, not the Sioux Nation, nobody is being ripped off there. Ranchers have been paid for the easements they have granted. Hotels/motels in towns along the route are having a boom in business as are grocery stores, liquor stores, and local hangouts. The Sioux are not getting revenue since the line does not cross their lands. Doesn't even come as close to them as protesters are making it sound.

If you strongly disagree with what I have written I encourage you to do some fact checking. Look beyond the headlines. Go to the company site and view the documents showing the routing of this line. Try to find any documentation of any burial grounds along the route.
 
I usually don't get involved in these dog fights or cat fights (call it what you will but that's usually what they amount to). I will say that I've worked in pipeline industry for 35 years so you'll know which side butters my bread. As far as burial grounds or cemeteries (Native Americans aren't the only ones that bury their relatives) go anytime there's new construction an archeologist is usually on site or at least on call. If evidence of a grave site is found operations are shut down until relatives or owners are found and arrangements are made for relocation or new right of way is located. If its historical such as Native American bury grounds operations stop equipment is moved out and the site is left as undisturbed as possible. New right of way is located. As far as dangers associated with high pressure pipeline considering the miles of natural gas pipeline we have in Texas alone and looking at accidents that have occurred. Most of which were caused by contractors or landowners who didn't call before digging. They have a good safety record. Leaks cost money through loss of product. Not to mention a hazard to the public and company employees. Which has the potential of even higher cost through litigation. They get repaired asap. Energy is here to stay. Just about everything you come in to contact with on any given day got there as a result of oil & gas industry. Either through manufacture, transport, or energy used to fuel the plant. It's not the bad guy its made out to be just another resource we need and use.
 
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I am 100-percent utilitarian on this issue. The production, movement, sale and availability of oil & gas positively affects the quality of my life exponentially more than astronomy pursuits, drunk-*** native Americans, or national parks; all of which require not only oil-based products themselves to function and live, but who are all existing off the dole amassed partly through oil-industry taxation. Talk about biting the hand that feeds.
 
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Well, good for you Tim! And when your grandkids ask "Pawpaw, why do you live out here in this stinking wasteland?" It will be interesting to hear your reply
and see the look on there sweet innocent faces.
 
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0.00138% TIMES 723 miles equals 1 leak.
"I'm not that good at math, but I take that equation to mean that over the entire 723 mile line their is at any given point a less than 1% overall chance that there will be a leak. Transporting by rail, or by truck is statistically far more risky I'm sure. Otherwise they would be jumping all over it."
You're right- You're not that good at math.
For the paltry sum of $14,000,000, these wise-guys took "A LEAK" and divided that one leak by the length of the line. WHERE WILL IT LEAK? Duh, somewhere. WHICH MILE WILL LEAK? Well, the unaltered probability is 0.00138 on THIS mile, and 0.00138 on THAT mile.
I never passed 1st-year algebra but that piece of hokum was like a wart on the Mona Lisa! And old mayor knew it, too!
As to the comment to quit using the juice, we can call this NO-wheeled Texans. (Bet your bike is real cool with pedals and no engine.)
As to protesting the line? This is just one more part of NAFTA. And although I AM MEMBER of several groups working to 'fix' the way things are, this presidential race has pretty clearly 'explained it' to us all. No, WE don't have squat to say about these matters.
And at that, I've said my 0.00138 cents worth, and YES, this is WAY off-topic.
 
mikes old virago said:
0.00138% TIMES 723 miles equals 1 leak.
"I'm not that good at math, but I take that equation to mean that over the entire 723 mile line their is at any given point a less than 1% overall chance that there will be a leak. Transporting by rail, or by truck is statistically far more risky I'm sure. Otherwise they would be jumping all over it."
You're right- You're not that good at math.
For the paltry sum of $14,000,000, these wise-guys took "A LEAK" and divided that one leak by the length of the line. WHERE WILL IT LEAK? Duh, somewhere. WHICH MILE WILL LEAK? Well, the unaltered probability is 0.00138 on THIS mile, and 0.00138 on THAT mile.
I never passed 1st-year algebra but that piece of hokum was like a wart on the Mona Lisa! And old mayor knew it, too!
As to the comment to quit using the juice, we can call this NO-wheeled Texans. (Bet your bike is real cool with pedals and no engine.)
As to protesting the line? This is just one more part of NAFTA. And although I AM MEMBER of several groups working to 'fix' the way things are, this presidential race has pretty clearly 'explained it' to us all. No, WE don't have squat to say about these matters.
And at that, I've said my 0.00138 cents worth, and YES, this is WAY off-topic.
Click to expand...

Actually, that math equals 1% not one leak, sorry to burst your bubble. And for the record, my bike is really cool with a gas motor in it which is why I'm not the one griping about a pipeline. I am a realist that realizes that all of this "bad stuff" has to come from somewhere. I'm not the unrealistic idealist that wants all of my toys but is far to naive to realize that the bad stuff has to come from somewhere.

And truth be told, I'm actually pretty good at math, and interpreting numbers for what they actually mean. Some others are not. Now quit using all of this natural gas and get to pedaling your bicycle!:rofl:
 
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