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Harley-Davidson’s Hurdle: Attracting Young Motorcycle Riders

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Daytrader said:
I've talked with several Harley owners. They don't think the new street series is a "real" Harley. I think that's one of the main problems.
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Harley owners don't think your Triumph or your Honda is a "real" motorcycle either

The not-so-dirty secret is Harley owners don't really want the Harley - they want to be part of the "club"

Glad I left it
 
Not all of them. When I rode a Harley, most of the guys I rode with were on sportbikes.
 
tricepilot said:
Harley owners don't think your Triumph or your Honda is a "real" motorcycle either

The not-so-dirty secret is Harley owners don't really want the Harley - they want to be part of the "club"

Glad I left it
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I think you're correct Bob.
BTW, I test rode a Rocket 3 and I like it a lot.
It put the V Rod I rented last time I was down there to shame .
That purchases going to have to wait until I get back down there though.
 
cheez said:
I, on the other hand, was looking at a customized Road Glide they were asking $58k for. They can keep it at that price... but dang it looked purty fast.
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I would be happy to race that $58K Road Glide on my $18K BMW for a month's pay. I suspect that a 675cc Triumph with only 40 percent of the displacement would leave it wheezing in the dust. Absurdly expensive? Undoubtedly. Fast? I have to wonder.
 
Bines said:
Okay. Who were the procreators of this generation being dicussed?
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Us Millennials did. Scared by the 24/7/365 news networks that our precious babies were going to come to some terrible harm if they were let out of sight for a moment.

A recent thread on another group I follow showed a late 50's picture of a young boy and his sister about to board the train in Abilene to visit their grandparents in Arkansas. 90% of comment thread was along the lines of "oh what I shame we couldn't allow that today because of all the perverts out there." Thank fully at least some agreed with me that all the perverts didn't suddenly appear in the last 2 decades and that sadly history has been full of tragic abductions we just didn't hear about them.
 
even the military is using drones and robotics for dangerous missions. of course the controllers are 12000 miles away in a bunker looking at a video screen and PLAYING the game. then the tv commercial shows the soldier with a leggy blonde having dinner.
yeah, be all that you can be. an army of one.
times have changed, it's time for new development and technology.
Me, i'd like to see a 1200cc dual sport harley(sportster) with knobbies and 11 inches of travel in the suspension. sweet.
 
sharkey said:
Once they devise a way to text and ride, I'm sure cycle sales will increase. :rider:
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um....its 2015, my "old" sena SMH10 reads texts and E-mails and I can respond to them via voice to text and never take a hand off the bars.

all done with voice prompts, phone calls sound like your are sitting in a quiet office while going down the road at warp 6.
 
focus frenzy said:
um....its 2015, my "old" sena SMH10 reads texts and E-mails and I can respond to them via voice to text and never take a hand off the bars.



all done with voice prompts, phone calls sound like your are sitting in a quiet office while going down the road at warp 6.
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We'll see, then the kids should be buying more cycles. Me, I don't want to even communicate with the wife on back, much less check email or send text via voice. I can multi-task but don't see the need.


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It seems like HD could make a DS out of the Sportsters. I suggest the 883 because it's a bit lighter. Keep the same engine and transmission. They already make spoke wheels for them, which is what some DS riders say is the only proper DS wheel. Put on a beefed up suspension. Raise the fender. Maybe relocate the foot pegs and change the handlebar. Put the exhaust up higher. Add a skid plate. Maybe raise the air intake. Bam. Sportster DS. That's pretty much what's been done by folks who've made them in their garages.

I just don't think HD needs to. They don't need a sport bike, either. Their cruisers, muscle bikes and trikes are selling well enough.

I think they only made the Street series to get a piece of the metric mid size market. Even then, I'm surprised they made the 500.
 
"Will HD continue to dominate the cruiser market and also convert many younger riders to it's newer models?"


I've seen articles that BMW is worried about the same thing. Attracting younger riders.

I don't think they need to worry about it. It will cycle out. New riders will become Harley/BMW/my stereo typical "old man's bike" riders anyway in due time.

"2. This is motorcycling in general - not just Harley. Young people in general (my age and down) have been coddled and sheltered too much (of course there are some outliers) to be interested/excited about the "Freedom" and "Excitement" and "Adventure"

I'm 60 and I came from one of those families. We were fairly well off and usually got what we wanted. I liked what ever motorcycle, boat, bicycle, skateboard, RC plane/car etc... that was popular at the time.

I wouldn't have been caught dead on an old man's Harley or BMW though.

Guess what? I'm there now (old man) and guess what I ride....

I think the problem is just made up in sales meetings where the boss asks you to list "Your Department Goals for the Future". You gotta think of something, so it's "bringing in the youth" movement.

The soapbox is yours now.
 
Both my parents would be arrested today for child neglect. I know it wasn't easy to let me take off on a motorcycle at 15, but they taught me to be responsible, then let me go. That doesn't happen today.
 
The current generation of helicopter parents has as much to do with their kids not going out of doors as does the motivation of the kids themselves. Both social and traditional media paint the world as a horrible, dangerous place and parents buy it. The sad fact of the matter is that a lot of them prefer their kids to be confined and sedentary due to the effortlessness and peace of mind it provides.

That said, I do ride and associate with quite a few twenty-somethings, and they all seem to be speaking positively of the new H-D stuff, especially the modern Sportster line. They have no awareness (or care) concerning what baby boomers consider "real" motorcycles, and run in eclectic groups of bikes from sportbikes to motards to cruisers. So in my mind, H-D is doing a lot of things right.
 
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sharkey said:
We'll see, then the kids should be buying more cycles. Me, I don't want to even communicate with the wife on back, much less check email or send text via voice. I can multi-task but don't see the need.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Agreed, I don't even ride with music! Just the ride and bike noises!
 
Seems like the 20-somethings I know are shopping the 500-883 cruiser market pretty hard. Most are Japanese, but little Buells and 883s are both plentiful, and a few 1200s, mostly Lows. Even the occasional Big Twin potatoes-potatoes by. Haven't seen any new 500 or 750 Harleys--maybe the local dealers don't carry them???? Most everything is stock, though a few have a chip and tune. Straight pipes draw sneers and comments about going back home and asking your stepdad to put the mufflers back on. Not much with car(s), nothing to consider classic.

The college students fall into 2 groups, crotch rockets and small bikes of many descriptions.

Crotch rocket riders don't last very long, most major in road kill impersonations before finishing their first semester.

Lots of mopeds, 50-250cc scooters, cruisers, dualsports, standards, ... . Mostly Japanese, Korean, and Chinese brands, but a couple Vespas from Grammas' younger days drug out of old sheds. I heard about Grammas' flashbacks. :rofl: The Vespas from the '60s are dearly cherished and everyone watches over them, as they do Grampa's cherry 305 Dream and a few other rescues from the '60s and '70s. The Chinese clones of the old Honda horizontal singles are quite popular in everything from pit bikes to cruisers. My RX3 drew a lot of attention when I stopped by the university library for a meeting. Maybe 25 bikes and riders parked all around waiting for me to come out. They new California Scooter Company because several had CSC products, including a 150 Mustang. Pretty cool. Lots of questions. Very polite kids.

I've been drafted to lead a ride to Land Between the Lakes via slow enough roads a 50cc scooter can keep up, which means an average speed of about 30mph. Should be fun. I get a free steak for lunch.
 
When it comes to attracting younger people Harley has the same issues as golf: exclusivity and homogeneity...or at least the perceptions of those things. Both are expensive hobbies to pursue, both look at themselves as being elite, both put big emphasis on club membership, and purveyors of both have very distinct reputations with the general public.

I don't think the product is the problem (if you view it as a problem) in either case, but rather the culture that has been cultivated around the products (or the perceived culture, which is probably more important).
 
SparkyBlue said:
HD's problem along with just about everyone else is customers that can afford their stuff. The millennial don't have the jobs or disposable income. The economy has ridden the baby boomer wave
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This is the problem. By and large each successive year's graduates have more student debt and less income than the year before. After adjusting for inflation, millennials have roughly double the student debt that Gen-X'ers had at the same point in their lives (in many cases more than 2x the debt). Then you compound the issue with stagnant wages that are LESS than the previous generation's wages upon graduation (also adjusted for inflation), and also consider a housing market that is just plain unaffordable, and you get the picture of several generations that each have considerably less purchasing power than their predecessor.

Most markets are shrinking because expendable income is shrinking. HD isn't getting the youth dollar because it doesn't exist, not because youth aren't getting off the couch.
 
Well, as a millennial, I can tell that is exactly why I sold my Harley. I couldn't afford it AND kids, and wife told me we couldn't sell the kids to pay off the Harley.
 
YoDoc said:
Well, as a millennial, I can tell that is exactly why I sold my Harley. I couldn't afford it AND kids, and wife told me we couldn't sell the kids to pay off the Harley.
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Don't feel bad, the memories of raising kids is far better(for me anyway) than any bike I had. And you can't redo it. I raised three and there was never enough time or money.
 
In the past the biggest hurdle Harley had was that buying one was a push-button trip to "Biker" status for anyone with the spare change for the entry fee. The entry fee was high.

There was a solid cadre of "real" bikers setting the bar for others to mimic. These guys built their bikes from scrounged parts, not new, and they would ride the wheels off their bikes. They earned respect from fellow riders for their ingenuity and fortitude to take some of their rat bikes as far as they did.

Then, it became an exercise in fashion. Buy your Hog (and HD-branded Ford tow vehicle and matching HD labeled trailer), go get a tattoo or three, and carefully select the version of Captain Jack Sparrow costume that suited your image of your image of whatever image you wanted to portray at the beer joint your crowd hangs out at.

For HD corporate this was like a dream come true. They took the ball and ran with it. HD-branded fashion items became their biggest market, eclipsing motorcycle sales by a significant margin. Next, Hollywood jumped on the bandwagon and we began seeing plenty of product placement and a number of custom bike and "lifestyle" shows on the TV.

I'm hoping that curve has hit its apex.

In the last decade The Motor Company has actually taken some steps to incorporate actual engineering into new models. Finally.

They ran on essentially fifty or hundred year old tech for a long time. It worked, more or less, why improve? Back in the AMF years they tried branding the little Italian bikes as HD, but that didn't fool anyone. Now, they are developing their own offerings for entry level, green, and even more reliable water cooled versions under the brand.

However, the momentum of that "Rebel Without A Cause" image started by those WWII veterans still dominates their target demographic, and these laudable efforts toward diversification aren't accepted by those who own or sell the product because they aren't "real" Harleys. Kinda like the age-old business of the Sportster being seen as a ladies bike. At least now with the water, electric, and single cylinder flavors the Sporty is more accepted as a "real" HD after decades of being shunned.

The problem HD has getting younger riders is mostly due to the fact that their product isn't the bike, it is the image. Because of this, and the chatter that potential buyers will hear from those whose opinion might sway them, they would rather aspire to having a "real" Harley than live through the possibility of being the target of ridicule for having bought one of these other models.

What can Harley do to change this? Not much, as it will be risky tampering with the driving force behind their cash cow, playing to the market of buyers wanting the Biker Image (TM).

Buell was an angle they really didn't quite know what to do with, but it should have given them a clue. The answer to the question will probably necessitate having a parallel brand of bike with its own unique name and image, and probably best to create a completely different dealer network to support it. Trying to sell Buell through HD stores was its downfall.

No matter what this brand is called, it would have small print after the name saying, "A Harley Davidson company" and that subtlety would be just the right touch to give credibility without taking away from the HD image.

That's my $0.02 worth.
 
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YoDoc said:
Well, as a millennial, I can tell that is exactly why I sold my Harley. I couldn't afford it AND kids, and wife told me we couldn't sell the kids to pay off the Harley.
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Do the kids do chores?

I'll rent one if so.
 
Great analysis. What HD are facing (and should study and learn from) is the exact problem Cadillac started to face in the 80's and to a certain extent, Lexus are now facing. The aging demographic of your brand denies legitimacy to younger consumers. In Cadillac's case they waited too long and nearly killed their name plate. Even with their excellent current offerings they are still fighting a hard row against the better perceived European offerings (sound familiar)?

Without starting a flame war here, HD's enemy number 1 is the BMW GS. I see many parallels between where Harley were 15/20 years ago and the demographic of many of the current purchasers of the $22K+ BMW. Dressing has become farkling and the Jack Sparrow outfits have become Charley Boorman outfits. Something that BMW's marketing department will also find to be less of a blessing as the natural aging out cycles above take hold.
 
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